UAV relay chain, laser line of sight.

Back to using blinker-lights in the 21st century….who’d have thunk it!. Granted the light is a bit different and the blinking is a touch faster than a human could ever encode morse but still…….:)

Problem with this, as you know, is the atmosphere. Whats the reliable range on milspec freespace optical now?. I’ve looked at this for connecting up a couple of buildings over a campus site in my professional role but was massively put off by performance degradation in the rain and an unfortunate reaction to vibration of the transceiver assemblies (train line along one side of the site). Not sure the chain you’re suggesting would be quite on the scale Sanem is hoping for.

if you say so

2004

2009

2016?

OK Sanem this is a pretty good example of ‘Plummer Syndrome’. That is the inability to grasp that the super-cool-robot-wonder-system isnt a solution all on its own and, in fact, needs to exist in the real world within the structures evolved to meet capability requirements. Lets try and give you a couple of examples:

1, Non-segregated airspace. Perhaps mitigated by collision-avoidance systems, but, not everywhere thusly limiting operational deployment. That and one bad line of code and a bit of bad luck and the first collision with a civvy airliner and UAVs are segregated-only everywhere. Have the most advanced AI you like…it wont make one whit of difference.

2, Technology transfer. Back in the bad old days bits of foreign kit were pilfered at any opportunity. Other peoples sonobuoys being fished out of the water during opposition exercise serials happened. Drones being GPS-dragged and captured has happened.

Can you imagine how vulnerable something like the US Navys ASW tattletale drone USV is going to be?. Give it a target to chase and lead it into a cluttered environment for meeting with a couple of, previously-innocent-looking, civvy salvage vessels. Yoink…and thank you USN for advancing the technology level of any number of countries two or three steps overnight!.

Two quick examples of how policy and procedure, as well as the tactical/strategic environment, has to be there alongside the technical wizardry. Take them away and the cleverest kit is utterly useless.

thanks for the name and the background, that’s appreciated 😉
I don’t understand most of what he’s saying to be honest
but Plummer is in my view, for all the faults he may have, the most visionary author out there in the field of air power and many other military fields too btw

You can imagine the boy speaks like Yoda in real life! 😎

“Hmmm unmanned your plane must be….or pilots….hmmm….bounce off the ships they will!”.

Seriously I tried to see the positives for years, he is a clever guy, he’s also a great place to pick up the new acronyms. Then one day I was discussing sea denial operations with him and he started coming out with all sorts of random nonsense about sea mines shooting Harpoon missiles and floating sensor buoys 500km offshore. It was then you realised that the grasp on reality was just a little shaky and he’s off into near-scifi while everyone else is talking doctrine, logistics and deployability.

If you want a Dale Brown script at any point. Find him!. He’ll give you material for an unbelievable technothriller…with many drones…just keep in mind its all purely fictional!.

With respect to a 1000 NM A2AD zone offshore, there is a distinct difference between not technically feasible and no political will.

For ‘no political will’ I’d substitute ‘practically deliverable’. No one is close. Nor ever has been.

Hi Jonesy … the SHARs are done for … they flew off the deck of the Viraat for the very last time a few days back and landed in Goa. Its just too difficult and risky to operate them now primarily because of the lack of spares.

Does surprise me to hear that. I understood that a modest life extension went in with the Elta/BVRAAM upgrade work?. Clearly they are old cabs now though so, sad to see from a romantic perspective, but of course quite understandable.

Here is Viraat … cruising at 21 knots … on her way back to Mumbai … probably the last pic we will see with SHARs onboard …

I saw these when you posted them first Vishnu and I wanted to say something then but everything I put down seemed unintentionally condescending in some way….so I’ll just say that its clear from her state there, in the sunshine, that the old girl went to the right place, and to the right people, to give her last years of service.

There was a very unfortunate tragedy at the end of the day shortly after the Viraat docked at Goa – there was a fire in her boiler room as they were shutting down her engines … a sailor was killed because of smoke inhalation …

Boilers are always trouble. Deeply sad to hear of the loss in what should be a fairly routine evolution. I know we were glad to see the back of large steam plants in the surface fleet when the Fearless class passed into history.

Trident Is Vulnerable

Seldom have I seen such a large volume of nonsense condensed into such a short article.

It hurts me to be the one who has to say this to you… but nobody’s except you is laughing..

ah…but is there a video to prove that?

:highly_amused:

It may have been carefully worded, or it may have been a more casual statement that, when examined from just the right angle, makes some kind of sense (as more than mere hyperbole to scare up additional funds for USN). And then of course there are other angles from which it deserves at least a raised eyebrow……. Really? Numbers do matter, and the Russians should have little difficulty fielding (and, crucially, operating) enough nuclear boats by 2025 (at the very latest) to more than offset any qualitative advantage the RN may have.

If its a casual comment it marks the Admiral as someone with a good grasp of his subject in my view!.

Numbers matter from the standpoint of capability generation only. This is one of those issues where ‘just send out anything’ wont really do the job. Astute, anecdotally, can hold a US Virginia class from hitherto unseen ranges. A 671 or early 971 would not be anticipated, today, to offer the same discretion rate as a Virginia. So the question is ‘does a greater number of ageing and variably updated hulls equal a smaller number of contemporary hulls’. If they dont then the additional hulls dont contribute to an effective mission capability…..they are targets being set up on the range.

As TR1 notes the Russian Navy seems to have been the services whipping boy in terms of acquisitions for some time. The new 885 hulls hit design freeze in the very early 90’s for a first of class laid down date in 93….Astute wasnt ordered until 97 and didnt hit the build hall until the start of 2001. Essentially the ‘new’ 885 is already a generation off the pace and, I understand, has a modernized version under development at present.

The upshot of this is that Russian crews are deploying in less competetive hulls while the service plays catch up from its enforced stagnation. Crewing the older hulls and maintaining proficiency on legacy systems keeps them on the field, but, means that when the new hulls come into commission they’ll then have to start working up on the newer systems and capabilities the hulls deliver. All the while, taking us as example of a competitor, we have the 3rd Astute coming into commission next month and the remaining 4 either in build or funding allocated. All to a settled, successful, design and with a defined training plan and experienced crews to spread through the fleet. By 2025 we’ll have Ajax just commissioned and a single-class fleet of 7 boats. I cant see how the Russian Navy could get from where they are now to a better position than we’ll be in between now and then.