Pretty sure the union-led economic suicide of the late 70’s had a core socialist component.

Certainly one manufacturer of aircraft wings in the north-west region, who shall remain nameless, had a a very strong union/socialist element ‘guarding’ the workforces interests. I had occasion to visit the union offices when I first visited the site in the very early 00’s. I found it tucked away under a stairwell in a corner, out of sight, crowded with members smoking and reading the paper. I visited many years later and found that the management had invested in the union facilities. This placing the new office square in the middle of the main buildings workfloor in a fully glassed in office where all workers could see what their reps were doing for them. There werent so many relaxed smokers and not a newspaper in sight.

Thats just a personal observation on one site with the conduct of a very socialist union environment. It wasnt Thatcherism that was behind that mate!. That feeds back to my earlier point though that true socialism and real socialism are very different animals.

but it’s also interesting that wealth is ‘100% deserved’ when you have it,

The tricky part there is, of course, who gets to quantify the scale of what is ‘deserved’ and what isnt!.

If someone, a scientist or doctor perhaps, has studied for years to reach a pinnacle of achievement and is rewarded lavishly for their endeavours do we accept that as valid.

If someone is a premiership footballer, conversely, the mere suggestion that they’re worth their salary is enough to fill columns with ire in the broadsheets and tear social media to bits. That is despite the fact that the individual has likely practiced and trained since pre-school age, is one of the top 200 or so professionals in their field of endeavour in the entire nation and gets a largely media-derived salary in line with other A-list talent in the film and entertainment industry.

Then you have the wildcard…..the individual who spots an opening in a market, has an idea, takes a risk and has it pay off massively. That person, arguably, has earned nothing. They haven’t studied and sacrificed…..they aren’t naturally gifted in any physical sense necessarily…..their only achievement was seeing something no-one else did…..or acting on their vision before anyone else could do. Are they deserving of boundless riches?.

The concept of ‘deserved’ is fundamentally flawed enough to be meaningless!

I’m sort of with Bruce. For all the guff being put about people are getting mockery-fatigue, especially younger people. Increasingly they are asking ‘so, go on, what is this socialism they are banging on about’?

For right or wrong, that is making him a political force. At least to the point where if – as is likely – he fails to become PM it will be through a reasoned rejection of his political thought rather than a rejection of his beard or whatever we are told to judge him on. And that can only be a healthy thing.

For my money there is an element of the cliche………

“Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart. Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.”

The appeal for Corbyn is the socialist idyll….pure socialism….unpolluted by little things like human nature and reality. It appeals to those who accept idealism as reality.

Namely thats the youthful and inexperienced….its those who lack the wit to accept the fantasy element inherent, those who seek to exploit those first two groups for their own gain and, lastly, some who believe a Corbyn regime could be modified into something a little more realistic in time.

There are new voters there, but, there are also fickle voters there. There are also a lot of turf wars inside the Labour Party still to play out. Today I read that there’s been an about-face on Trident as a sop to the unions….which has offended the youthful idealists. This is my point about a fringe socialist debating society sadly. I say sadly as were going forward into an era of unchecked single party rule, for lack of a credible opposition, and thats not how the system is meant to work.

Sadly, many JC supporters cant see that the mass enthusiasm which they see in their rallies, and to be fair in the increased membership of the party, hasn’t translated across the country.

However, the man can no longer be ignored, and we should be wary of seeing him as a figure of fun. He is, without a doubt, building the party which his supporters want – and doing so in the face of all advice, and all evidence. Be interesting to see what happens for sure!

There is an element of fun pokery in this though Bruce. You can’t take him entirely seriously as a political leader of a country that holds a permanent UNSC seat.

I love the fact that labour membership has swollen. I love even more the claims from grass roots Tories that say they’re the ones swelling the ranks and making sure Corbyn got the leadership. In the clear and certain knowledge that Labour will remain a fringe socialist debating society every day JC keeps his death grip on the reins of the party.

I always thought that the Type-23 frigate would have made an excellent hull for a replacement Royal Yacht. That would have saved a fortune in design, procurement, spare part commonality, maintenance and training; it would also have allowed the United Kingdom to showcase the propulsion system, particularly the marine gas turbines, an area of design where the United Kingdom were world-leaders. It would probably have paid for its procurement costs in a few years.

While not engaged in royal duties, which would have been most of the time, the ship could have been used for the training of engineering and navigation, and maybe even anti-submarine sonar work if a sonar suite had been fitted. And what about naval radar; the yacht would need some radar so why not a fairly comprehensive naval radar (especially if the yacht was going to be responsible for some of its own protection)? The United Kingdom also used to be (is?) pretty good at manufacturing sonar and radar equipment?

Don’t think of it as a Royal Yacht, think of it as a floating sales suite for British naval engineering.

Issue there CD is one of demarcation!. It’s routine for forward deployed RN ships to engage in port visits for defence diplomacy purposes already. The idea here is in part for cooperation and familiarisation but also, if the port in question belongs to someone with a few quid to spare, a BAE rep might just be on hand with a sales pack to demonstrate the finer points!

I think the idea with the yacht would be to support the wider scope of business and diplomacy missions. If you want the glib sound byte it would be more soft power than firepower!

Build a new Royal yacht ? I’ve now heard everything ! Perhaps we could devote whatever remaining expertise we have in this country to re-acquiring the necessary skills to build a new generation of energy generating nuclear plants, instead of relying on the French and Chinese.

Oh no ! Build a new Royal yacht that’ll keep the lights on.

Yes John because I said that building a single ship would be all the stimulus our economy needed. I didn’t actually say ‘split off 300-400mn for a project’. Well done on displaying the ignorance one more time.

hmmmmm……bacon porn!!!

The work that you claim that they ‘work very hard at’ is made up work largely of a charitable nature. They own vast estates filched from the people many centuries ago. Heaven knows how many houses the Queen owns. I count at least half a dozen. The Royal family and hangers on get the benefit and we the taxpayers support this expensive charade.

So they have vast estates. They manage them to generate a huge revenue and create employment. They give that revenue to the Exchequer taking a small percentage in return, as the civil list, and use that to fund their efforts to promote our interests…..and that’s your definition of us ‘supporting an expensive charade’ is it?.

You’ve already demonstrated a modest understanding of economics…..can we now add a limited understanding of the concept of ‘soft power’ as well?. So I’ve got you now pegged down either as ex Army payroll corps or a former crab officer. Both types, in my experience, were notorious for knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.