Liam Fox statement in full
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/8349939/Liam-Fox-Libya-crisis-shows-why-were-right-on-defence-reform.html
Far too much attention has been given to the older equipment which is being taken out of service and far too little to the investments we are making for the future.
Fair?
Not sure if this has been posted yet, recent video of construction
http://www.youtube.com/embed/p7RHVh3kTr0
Can’t see anything coming of it, but the press are starting to pick up on the stupidity of naval cuts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/8346089/Navy-cuts-will-put-lives-at-risk-warn-Forces-chiefs.html
Given one of Mr Camerons soundbites was ‘do we need quite as many fast jets in a post cold war world?’ i’m guessing that’s right and the RAF will have to make do with a future post 2020 of 107 Typhoon, 50 F-35C & Reaper/Taranis
Someone should remind Labour politicians of the difference between Frigate & Destroyer numbers between 1997 & 2009
Looking at this report I get a feeling that the anti carrier (lets cancel them) brigade have regrouped!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12527669
Yet again they go on about the carriers being over budget but the main reason for that is the previous government delaying the industry expected maingate from 2004 to 2007! Then reorganising the contractors, then changing the contractors and then getting all the contractors to merge their operations. Finally the politicians forced the contractors to slow down the build process adding even more cost!
I don’t think its an attack on the carriers per se, given this is a cross party group. This is more an attack on the culture of the MoD procurement which approves the likes of CVF or its like without adequate funding in place.
Let me re-phrase it, Inkworm, should we really rely on any media report? Having said that and in response to your last point, possibly not.
Whether it’s Guardian or Mail there’s no doubt more cuts are on their way – it has been all accross the media.
In the FT this morning:
The MoD has to cut its budget by 7.5 per cent in real terms between now and 2014-15. As the Financial Times reported last month, the MoD appears to be well short of reaching its target for spending cuts in 2014-15 – and this is affecting the blueprint for expenditure that must be agreed by April.
Liam Fox has admitted as much
“We are working our way through the current planning round and we always knew we would have a big task to achieve the necessary savings over the next four years”
“If you read the press, you’ll see each of the three services is briefing out that it is about to disappear. This happened in the SDSR. This time, we’ll be keeping decisions much closer to our chests.”
In the SDSR the government have set out the force numbers they want by 2020. So we’re looking at 2 FJ types in Typhoon & F-35 – that immediately makes Tornado vulnerable.
They state 19 DD/FF by 2020, which could mean Illustrious or Ocean going immediately.
The additional Chinooks would also look like a non-starter if it weren’t for the fact that it is politically difficult to cancel and as we know political consideration seems to trump the Military one these days.
Could a Sea Gripen be the solution short term for RN?
The RN does not need a short term solution. Under the current SDSR plans all funds are allocated up to 2020 – there is no spare cash for anything short term not already budgeted for (and even that will require defence spending rises post 2015)
Still think Naval Typhoon is pie in the sky talk really, but it sounds like a perfect excuse for the MoD to only equip one CVF with Cats.
The main difference between EU and US is that the US has a joint military. This leads to a very large home market adn a “natural” form of standardisation.
In EU each indivudal state is still perusing its national defecne priorities leading to a multitude of small markets and an industry that prodcues small volumes (hence high development costs per issue).
Yes, it’s economy of scale isn’t it? The UK has 1/10th or 1/11th the defence budget of the USA but we certainly don’t get 1/10th the military equipment the US does for that very reason.
i have been on holiday, can someone please tell me why the UK is “going to dump the F35C”?
Has something happened or is this another “buy Super Hornet” discussion?
Nothings happened at all, I think people tend to forget that the 40-50 F35C that the UK buy will not happen until the end of the decade to coincide with CVF purchase. Not only does this defer payment for it now when we are cash strapped it also lets the UK sit back and watch what happens with F35 and gives it options should problems/cost rises etc occur.
Even then I don’t know why the presumption is that these 40-50 F35 will be the only UK purchase ever made until the end of the f35 line? A decade is a long time.
The argument I guess is that a purchase of 80+ Super Hornets will be better than 50 F35’s. But that rather overlooks the basic facts that under the SDSR released in October the UK has no funds to buy Super Hornets ‘now’
I find it unduly pessimistic, if you take his chart at the end comparing what was recieved in reality in the 98 SDR and then suggest the same occurs and take it to the nth degree in future SDSR’s the RN ends up with minus ships 😀 I don’t underestimate what it will take to regenerate carrier ops after a gap though.
We’ll not know anything concrete about CVF’s until we know who is in power after the 2015 election and what the financial situation is. Whilst its true this current government is lukewarm, Labour are pretty much pro CVF.
As far as I know, QE & PoW are both going to be built by 2021 – what is not known is if one or both are at this stage getting cats. My personal opinion is that only QE will get cats with PoW put into reserve immediately (but we’re talking 8 years down the line, the UK may experience a boom by then)
Beedalls supposition that the UK is touting around for a buyer for PoW is contrary to what the government have said on the record recently as well – that the decision with what to do with the 2nd carrier will not be taken until the 2015 SDSR and that selling it is the least likely option.
http://navy-matters.beedall.com/
This makes a lot of things clear!
Since when was it the plan to launch HMS QE as a Helicopter carrier for 3 years? That’s not what the SDSR said at all. He’s being a bit of a doom monger in his latest piece, not difficult in these fiscally tight times I guess.
The Telegraph is quoting Babcock as reporting that each CVF would cost up to £800mn to convert to CATOBAR! Are we going for the gold plated solution again?
Anyone kind enough to give a summation of what was discussed for us Island Monkeys?