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Srbin

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June 21, 2004 at 11:22 pm in reply to: Gripen & LCA/J-10 #2684867

Srbin
Participant

I’d take the gripen any day over the J-10/LCA

And why is that?

These are sopposed to be cost effective light multirole fighter right? I don’t think the Gripen is exactly so cost effective when compared to LCA or J-10.

June 21, 2004 at 11:21 pm in reply to: IAI MiG-21-2000 #2684868

Srbin
Participant

I was looking for a while on any info on the integration of the Derby or even the Python 4 on the IAI Mig-21-2000, and there is nothing of that sort with it offered. This means the -2000 is basically BVRless and would probably be toast against the R-77 of the -93.

June 21, 2004 at 9:48 pm in reply to: IAI MiG-21-2000 #2684921

Srbin
Participant

So what about -2000’s BVR capability? Where’s the Derby?

June 21, 2004 at 9:47 pm in reply to: Gripen & LCA/J-10 #2684942

Srbin
Participant

Gripen would still have a better radar AMSAR (2010 say?), a better A2G standoff weapon (Taurus), a gliding submunition dispenser (Mjoelnir), full compatibility with a huge range of hi-end US+EU weapons and its datalink and co-operative engagement concepts with the Ereyie.

To me it looks like a much more mature system compared to LCA, J-10 and FC-1. it will take a while for india & china to come up with all the cool toys and tricks Gripen brings to the table rather than just the airframe.

I know Meteor and Taurus are very good weapons, I know the Russians have really nothing to match the Taurus but is the twice more expensive Gripen really worth it over the J-10 or LCA? Also are the Europeans and Swedes really willing to export the Taurus or the Meteor to anyone?

Also isn’t there a wide array of Russian radars that could be integrated into the LCA or J-10?

Not againnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn The first thing they will say is that the Gripen is already here while the LCA and the J-10 are on the way
Hey is the LCA scheduled to get a data link capability?

True, J-10 and LCA are both behind the Gripen

I don’t know, the cost of the Gripen really makes it attractive when you can get an 2 LCAs or J-10s for the cost of one Gripen.

June 21, 2004 at 8:59 pm in reply to: IAI MiG-21-2000 #2685000

Srbin
Participant

That has to do with the range of the Kopyo radar in the older version bought by India (has this been changed?). Of course it goes without saying that a MiG-21-93 fitted with a Super Kopyo radar is much less limited in BVR engagements since its range has been significantly increased.

Yes the Kopyo is little limited but 50+km is not bad, considering that the R-77 is not that much longer ranged. Derby is sopposed to have a 50km range if not less right, does that mean it’s limited BVR? I don’t think so.

The ability to make major structural modifications is one definite advantage MiG-MAPO has. The only structural modification of the Israeli MiG’s is the remodelled windscreen which is also pesent on the MiG-21-93 which also has a blown canopy. This is a plus for the MiG-21-93 since from what I have heard from E-German MiG-21 drivers, if you are above average height you have some trouble moving your head about in the classic MiG-21 canopy and vision is restricted due to the spine. A blown canopy fixes that. The bolt in replacement engine is AFAIK some version of the engine used in the MiG-29. Take that with a grain of salt thoug, I have not really spent any time researching the engine replacements since no upgrade customer has gone for one.

Exactly, I’d rather get them to play around my Mig-21s than IAI.

Anyways, I have yet to see any info regarding the Derby being integrated into the Mig-21-2000 and same with Python 4.

June 21, 2004 at 7:16 pm in reply to: Service life costs Su-30MKI vs F-16blk50. #2685041

Srbin
Participant

Anyways, I made some mistakes.

1)I am comparing a F-16blk50 and an Su-30MKI which is only for India and includes extra development costs and such.
2)The engine life for later Al-31Fs is something like 3000hrs, the MTBO is something like 1500h. So you’ll probably have to relace them 2-3 times throughout the life of the airframe.
3)Al-31s are not that expensive really, are they?
4)F-16 deals with Greece and Israel for blk50 and Sufa were not that expensive because they did not include many goodies with it cuz they both operated F-16s previously.
5)The Flanker costs vary all the time. It seems that on average a new built Su-27SK costs anywhere around 30mn give or take 1-2mn. Su-3X_ cost more and around 35mn-40mn usually at least thats what they paid for them. There are special cases like Brazilian Su-35 offer where it came around 29-35mn.
6)The operating costs are quoted at something like $8000/h for the M2K by the French AF, I think we all know that the F-16 is more to operate so would probably be around 8,500-9,500. As for the Flankers, I really don’t know, I think India said it was something like $15,000-$20,000 for their Flankers. Israel said the same about their F-15s.
7)The latest F-16 sales were to Poland and UAE for brand new F-16s. Poland paid something like 80mn for each of their F-16s in the contract but there were some extra upgrades for the future including itnegrated of new weapons such as JSSOW i think and others. UAE also paid 80mn for their F-16blk60s but probably some of that money in there was for R&D.

June 21, 2004 at 5:09 pm in reply to: How good are US pilots abroad on excersices? The thruth! #2685256

Srbin
Participant

The biggest problem with USAF and I think it’s safe to same to some extend the USN is that their dependance on AWACS. The USAF and USN pilots depend way too much on them and as we know that most F-15 pilots for example will never even use their on board sensors and will always get info from AWACS.
Yes they know how to use their onboard sensors, they are taught how to use it in case AWACS go down or are unavailable, but they do not seem to be very good at it.

As it seems, the F-15 pilots after Cope India complained how they did not have any AWACS support.

June 20, 2004 at 5:01 pm in reply to: IAI MiG-21-2000 #2685939

Srbin
Participant

so what about Python 4 and especially the Derby?

June 20, 2004 at 4:20 pm in reply to: IAI MiG-21-2000 #2685972

Srbin
Participant

To quote one description:
– Modular Multi-Role Computer
– Display And Sight Helmet – DASH
– Head Up Display – Elop 921
– Multi-Function Display 5×5 in.
– Multifunction Color Display 5×5 in.
– Hybrid Navigation System – LISA-4000 EB
– ILS/VOR/DME
– Air data computer – Marconi ADC
– Hopping frequency VHF/ UHF radio – ACR 435
– VHF/ UHF radio – ACR 430
– Radar Warning Receiver – Elisra SPS-20
– Chaff and flare dispensers – TAAS/IMI
– Range radar Elta EL/M 2001 B (Lancer A/B)
– Multi Mode Radar – Elta EL/M 2032, with look-down / shoot-down capability (Lancer C)
– Data Transfer System – DTS
– Flight data recorder – SAIMS
– IFF transponder – Plessey (NATO Mk.-10 IFF compatible)
– Stores Management System
– HOTAS
– Hardpoints for Eastern and Western weapons
– Electronic Countermeasure Pod – Elta EL/L-8222R
– Laser Designation Pod – Rafael Litening LDP
– Photo Reconnaissance Pod – Elbit/Aerostar Airborne Reconnaissance Pod – ARP
– Smart weapons – Rafael Griffin laser guided bomb (LGB), Lizard LGB and OPHER – IR guided bomb
– Dumb bombs and cluster bombs – Mk-82, Mk-83, FAB-100, FAB-250, FAB-500, BEM-100, CL-250
– Air to Air missiles – R-73, R-60, R-3S, R-13M, Magic II and Python-3
– Unguided rockets – S-5 M/K, carried in UB-16-57 / UB-32-57 rocket launchers and
– Single large caliber rockets S-24.

…which to me sounds slightly more than just a new cockpit.

What happent to Python 4 and Derby missiles really?
It is merely a cockpit upgrade with a new radar to give it compatibility with new weapons.

June 20, 2004 at 4:00 pm in reply to: Kh-65 #2685976

Srbin
Participant

So is KH-SD going to be integrated maybe onto the Flankers?

June 20, 2004 at 6:26 am in reply to: Kh-65 #2686074

Srbin
Participant

It was weird because it said that the Kh-65 was integrated onto the Su-35 and Su-37.

Are any of these missiles being integrated onto them?

June 19, 2004 at 11:50 pm in reply to: Service life costs Su-30MKI vs F-16blk50. #2686198

Srbin
Participant

It’s weird because all the Flankers come in so many different costs. They have been sold, and in many different versions at many different prices and that includes contract.

I don’t know, I’ve really lost track of how much they cost with the stuff on them.

June 19, 2004 at 10:47 pm in reply to: PAF to purchase 35 ex Libyan Mirages #2686232

Srbin
Participant

OMG, seriously guys ingore SD-10. Whatever you say won’t change his mind really.

June 19, 2004 at 10:43 pm in reply to: Can anyone provide SAM info about those following countries? #2686237

Srbin
Participant

Turkey threatened to bomb the sites where they suspected the Cypriots were going to place them at, though it would be very hard to destroy an S-300 since it’s extremely mobile and takes something like 5 minutes to undeploy and move. Cyprus didn’t want any problems so they moved them to Crete.

June 19, 2004 at 8:18 pm in reply to: Service life costs Su-30MKI vs F-16blk50. #2686335

Srbin
Participant

Your entire thread is borked.

F-16 cost includes first class training of pilots at Luke AFB; first class missiles like AMRAAM-C; special US financing terms; plenty of technician training and development of facilities. Then you compare it with MKI flyway unit cost as made in India.

MKK deals include a package of missiles, such as R-77 and various air to ground missiles, like Kh-59ME on earlier deals and the Kh-31A on the last deal. A lot of other extra missiles are obtained seperately.

Let’s then compare it to a Su-35 or even a Su-30K

So whats wrong with R-77 compared to AMRAAM-C?
So how good is the Russian training?
What kind of special US financing terms are these?

Oh, they also include US getting to keep your AIM-120s and you may only have access to them when war breaks out, but even then thats very unsafe. Ohh + the political strings attached.
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