I’d love to know the lease rates Sing will be paying on the A330s – I bet they’re rock bottom loss-leaders for the A350-900XWBs which won’t be ready until 2012. Hopefully they’ll go for Rollers for power too!

Andy

Seems like the culprit will be having tea with the Chief Pilot fairly soon – no biscuits though! 🙂

Andy

For those moaning about high-vis jacket wearing press and their escorts wandering around spoiling their pictures, i’d better put it into words you can understand. As a member of the press, I feel I must take issue with these attacks on our occupation. We are, by the very nature of what we do far more important than those of you that Duxford has declined to recognise with such items of apparel. Hence the reason that we who are paid to be there rather than paying to be there get priority over those of you who are merely paying to see some aeroplanes.

I see no smilies after that comment, thus I am forced to take it at face value. If those aren’t the most contemptable remarks I have read here in recent times, I don’t know what is. However, I hope you enjoy the gainful employment you get from airshows when all the paying public have been driven away as a result of the arrogance of those who feel the show should be run just because they are there.

Andy

But remember an Airshow is not put on just so you can come and take picture’s, it is there to entertain the general public as well so it will always be a compramise. You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time!!

Indeed so – just as I said above. But you’ve got to accept that compromise in the minds of any section of attendees may result in some deciding that the admission fee is not worth it. For air shows to get people inside, the price of admission HAS to offer more than the option of standing outside for free, however people measure “more”. Like I also said, I’m happy to pay for air shows (can’t remember one I’ve “freeloaded” at in recent years) but then again I only go to the ones where I percieve that the admission offers value for money to me – i.e. those where I know the photo opportunities will be good – and the rest I just don’t travel to.

But consider this – not going to a show at all is just as big a loss to organisers as are the people standing outside. Both groups contribute nothing to a show’s income and viability. Air shows DO need to canvass opinions – again as I said when was the last time an air show actively encouraged suggestions and feedback from those going through the gate.

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Having said that, I’ll put up another contravertial comment and it primarily related to some regular airshow attendees/enthusiasts… My perception these days is that SOME air shows (only some, not all) give away far too much in terms of free admission and special facilities to those “in the know” or “connected”, financed by those “not in the know” who pay to go through the gate. When paying customers observe others getting in for free and then getting the best views, the best access, etc, then inevitably some of them will feel aggreived. As an example, in years gone past there were far too many folks getting into RIAT for free, and getting better access than the paying punters, based on who they knew or what they knew. I know MANY enthusiasts got turned off by that, and the ever increasing gate prices (way above inflation), and that’s one of the reason’s why RIAT’s gates dropped a few years ago.

Old Warden is a GREAT example of a location where you do not get that impression – where if there are people getting in for free or getting better facilities for free, its not obvious. But Duxford on Legends weekend is one where it all too often appears as if the normal folks who pay on the gate are the have-nots. Its hard to justify paying good money, when perception is that there are others getting in for free and getting even better facilities. This is one of the reasons why, even though I’ll go to Duxford tomorrow, I prefer the smaller shows these days – they usually appear to do far less pandering to the connected minority at the expense of those paying to go through the gate.

Andy

There’s no way on Earth any airshow is going to take paying members of the public out under the display axis.

I understand that, but I don’t want to be under the display axis, I want to be on the other side of it in some cases. Whilst I accept that there will be more people on the crowd side (usually!), I don’t see how an area the other side of the display access can be “safe” for the general public but unsafe for paying air show attendees.

Anyway, to return to the point! There are undoubtedly a number of people, quite possibly some of them enthusiasts, who go along to the vicinity of airshows with the intent of “freeloading” – shame on them! On the other hand, there may well be some people who go along and chose not to pay because they don’t feel that the show offers them fair value for money – HOWEVER they measure that in their minds (and I may fall into this category occasionally when going inside the venue isn’t condusive to good photography). I also accept that, whatever the entrance fee, some people will feel genuinely unable to afford the cost but may still chose to sit outside.

I don’t think that there’s much organisers can do to reduce entrance fees, although I believe that the RAFBF did actually at least consider their fees after attendance at RIAT dropped dramatically a two or three years ago.

However, I do sometimes wonder whether there is more organisers can do satisfy the various stakeholders, and thus increase the number of people who perceive the entrance fee to be value for money. Clearly, the interests of the VIPs/Hospitality, enthusiasts, vendors, aeroplane operators, etc, etc, all have to be taken into consideration. But I get the impression that some air shows are “thrown together” (sorry, I don’t really mean thrown together) by a limited number of people who tend to do it the same way as its always been done or in the easiest way, rather than genuinely actually consider how things could be improved for each of the stakeholder groups. Maybe I’m being vastly unfair saying that – I don’t know! I’m sure that consultation does take place – certainly with police and local residents etc especially when an air show is close to a built-up area – but do air show organisers genuinely consider the requirements of the enthusiasts, the families, etc, etc, when they pull a show together. Maybe an impossible task, maybe they do it, or maybe I’m just oversimplifying things as I look in from outside. I’m sure someone will answer. As a trivial example though, when was the last time the ticket had an “If you’d like to make any comment or suggestions about your visit to this air show today, please e-mail …” (or “…please note them on the back of this ticket and drop it into the box as you leave”)? Clearly traffic was an issue at Waddington and I’d hope someone noticed that, but if air show organisers don’t engage to ascertain what people think (both beforehand and after) how can they ever catch the disenchanted, possibly make improvements, and thus draw more people through the gate?

Andy

First up I’ll say that I am happy to pay to go into air shows. I’m also happy to pay extra for the sort of facilities that make my attendance even better – grandstands, flight line walks, etc.

HOWEVER, as a photographer, I am interested in the locations that provide the best photographs. If air show organisers want my money, then they better provide me with facilities that are better to those I can obtain outside. If better photographs can be obtained outside the fence, say on the south side of an airfield, then too bad on the air show photographers because they’re unlikely to get my money. Yes, that can be tough to arrange in some cases – for the shows where the crowd line is on the north side of the display line and thus the best photo points are likely to be outside, but hey I don’t mind paying in the slightest but I’m not paying good money to get inferior results.

So air show organisers, don’t whinge if you put the VIP enclosure in the best spot for photography and as a result photographers stay away – most of the VIPs aren’t avid photographers so they wouldn’t miss being not being in absolutely the premium spot for photography. Park static aircraft further apart and don’t put “stuff” – ballards, barriers – too close in front of them so photographers can get clear shots (Sentinal at Waddo a case in point), don’t have huge bouncy castles behind static aircraft which wreck shots – segregate them to an aera well away from static aircraft. And be creative – Duxford, how about trying to do a deal with the owner of the field on the far side, not to close down that location but I’d bet many photographers would pay extra to be taken over there for a better view of the show. Waddington – you know the sun is poor for photos until mid-afternoon, so again arrange something otherside (again, even off base maybe) for photographers that might generate you more money. Yes, yes, I know someone’s going to say that safety rules preclude it! Stop looking for problems and see if you can create opportunities – if the public can wander into that field I’m sure you could find a way to use it. OK, OK, someone’s going to say photographers aren’t the most important in terms of generating gate income for an airshow. Fair enough, you’ve just talked yourself out of the argument for why they should pay to go in in the first place.

Do air shows consult with various special interest groups that might come to the show, to see if they can provide better facilities for those groups? Dunno.

I have every sympathy for the air show organiser that feels aggrieved when folks stay outside just to avoid paying. I have no sympathy when those who pay, whatever their motivation, get a no better or a worse deal than those staying outside. And I’d have even less sympathy if organisers tried to appy unnecessary punitive restrictions outside to force people inside – sell air shows on what extra can be obtained from going in, not on forcing people to go in.

Andy