ante_climaxI have seen a few videos in youtube where F 16s win hands down. Yet to see any with F 15s winning though.
ante_climaxIf, India selects the F-16IN? I wonder what mix of single seat vs twin seat models it would order……..Israel twin seat F-16I’s come to mind.:diablo:
Probably initially a few double seaters and mostly single seaters, as they would be replacing single seat Mig 21s.
If there are any future orders they may go for the double seater variant.
ante_climaxwell, those who guessed the Gripen NG for the Indian MMRCA competition have already got one wrong. apparently, its been eliminated from the MMRCA competition in the technical evaluation round itself. I guess the timelines for its development or the fact that there isn’t a NG flying today, which means that field tests can only be done on a Gripen Demo prototype, meant that it didn’t pass some criteria. or it could be that given that its AESA is not ready as yet, but under development, it got eliminated.
In that case the Eurofighter will be next to go as its AESA won’t be ready for some time. What about the Rafale and Mig 35. both were at very advanced stage of testing with their respective AESA radars.
This all points to the tried tested and perfected American platforms. 🙂
ante_climaxYou could argue that I’m making a case against the F-16, too, since it would be the most likely to supplant an indigenous design if that design could not be sorted out in an acceptable amount of time. I don’t foresee 100/200/? extra Typhoons, Rafales or SK’s being ordered instead of waiting for the LCA to finally come good.
Spitfire, Even with the LCA coming good, IAF needs to replace its other aging platforms. There are old Bisons, Fulcrums, Jags, Mig 27s and M2ks to be replaced before the final MRCA is delivered which will be like 2020.
So we are talking about a total of 400 odd planes in general so there is plenty of orders to go around if you ask me.
ante_climaxif we wanted to get american birds, which is better?
F-16 or F-18. IAF might also prefer SH like USN because of twin engines.Coming to payload, despite F-18SH having greater empty weight compared to F-16, we don’t see much of increase in payload carrying ability.
why is that?
I would take the F-16 IN any day over the F 18. For one its considerably cheaper and the order can easily go past 200+. There are not many on order elsewhere and you can expect the shifting of production to India so as to ease LMs plant into JSF production.
Most of the additional F 18 empty weight comes from the rough and hardy under carriage needed for carrier landings, since we are not going to use AF planes on NAVY ships, this would mean a lot of unnecessary weight.
I do believe the F 16 IN is the perfect opportunity for the IAF who have missed out on the deal for the serial production of Mirage 2000-5s. Its deterrent value will also be immense against Pakistan especially. 😀
It would also give us a realistic chance of opting for the F-35 if we run into trouble with the PAK FA.
ante_climaxYes and i did say China is a competitor across all fields for Japan.
ante_climaxAgreed……………..Yet, it sounds like you are making a case for the F-16!:D
The f 16 unlike people here believe always had a good chance. It was on of the aircraft the IAF requested for in the initial tender, after GOI made it clear that there won’t be any direct acquisitions of Mirages. 🙂
ante_climaxSomeone was asking repeatedly as to why there are five birds mentioned in wiki instead of six. So as expected Gripen couldn’t make it, most likely due to its similarity to LCA. I guess the final battle is between SH, Rafale and Typhoon.
F 16 is going to win it. 😎
ante_climaxWell, the USAF has so few F-22’s available it would be hard pressed to station any in Japan. At least not on a permanent bases…………
As I’ve said all along……………its in the Strategic Interests of the United States to Export the F-22’s to Japan. 😀
I am not sure Japan and U.S have the same strategy with regards to China. U.S are at odds with China but its one of its leading economic partners. While for Japan China is a competitor in every field. It may change its limiting constitution and build up on its own in the near future.
ante_climaxand why should I know when the Chinese are going to schedule the first flight?
Unlike certain countries, China doesn’t make over-optimistic announcements on when their aircraft are flying. In fact they do quite the opposite.. they deny its existence until there’s overwhelming proof in the west and a flood of camera spotters by the air base.See J-10, KJ-2000, etc. China never announced anything about them until later.
If you see a model of a 5th generation Chinese fighter, it is likely that its much further along in progress than people think.
J 10 program was suffering till the Israelis handed the Chinese the design Specs. As for KJ 2000 its an Israeli radar on a Russian plane :confused:
ante_climaxPak Fiza’ya trainers know (or will know soon) about the operations of the four out of six contenders:
Gripen – Pak trainers are already getting trained on them at UK ETPS. they will know its functions and capabilities even before IAF chooses it.
EF2K – Pakistan will have access to their operations thanks to Saudis.
F/A-18 – Pak trainers have achieved certification on’em at Pensacola.
F-16 – Need I say more.I know MiG will be a bad idea. The best option is to secure the Rafale for the MRCA. Even Fiza’ya has requested France to supply the Dassault plane. Ehich France has repeatedly refused. India wanted to buy 126 M2k anyway. Please select Rafale.
I am from Oz and have witnessed Rafale trials here. But RAAF eggheads had already decided to augment its fleet of Hornets with Super Hornets. Dassault reps ere really pissed-off when they were made aware almost instantly about RAAFs decision. With Malaysia already flying the F/A-18 and also with Indonesia operating the Su-30MK, Rafale would have been the best choice for RAAF before F-35 joined. But they have already made the mistake of selecting SH. Please, India(ns) ensure that a truly Gen 4++ fighter is selected for MRCA rather than souped-up Gen 2&3 fighters which will not give IAF any seperiority over Paf Fizzer’ya or PLAAF !
Remember, Pak already knew about pros and cons of the Gnat fighters (again through ETPS and NATO academy in Canada). Proved by the fact that the Gnat that landed in Pak by mistake was flown by one of the pilots trained on Gnat to Karachi.
I know this post is tangential to the topic and for that I apologise.
I have replied to this post in another thread. So let me cut it short. The Pakistanis training on which ever MRCA contended do not make much difference and most importantly getting the F 16 would mean we could use it for DACT against Su 30s thus perfecting our strategies against both the Chinese Su 27/30/j 11s and Pakistani F16s 😀
ante_climaxand it will take another year or two to re-negotiate that increase.:(
So, that’s the second or third increase?
Chances are the first of the IAC’s will become operational before this thing. In that case what’s the point ? of this.
Russkis should do the work and then ask for price rather than keep the ship as it is and nag nag nag. :confused:
ante_climaxPak Fiza’ya trainers know (or will know soon) about the operations of the four out of six contenders:
Gripen – Pak trainers are already getting trained on them at UK ETPS. they will know its functions and capabilities even before IAF chooses it.
EF2K – Pakistan will have access to their operations thanks to Saudis.
F/A-18 – Pak trainers have achieved certification on’em at Pensacola.
F-16 – Need I say more.I know MiG will be a bad idea. The best option is to secure the Rafale for the MRCA. Even Fiza’ya has requested France to supply the Dassault plane. Ehich France has repeatedly refused. India wanted to buy 126 M2k anyway. Please select Rafale.
I am from Oz and have witnessed Rafale trials here. But RAAF eggheads had already decided to augment its fleet of Hornets with Super Hornets. Dassault reps ere really pissed-off when they were made aware almost instantly about RAAFs decision. With Malaysia already flying the F/A-18 and also with Indonesia operating the Su-30MK, Rafale would have been the best choice for RAAF before F-35 joined. But they have already made the mistake of selecting SH. Please, India(ns) ensure that a truly Gen 4++ fighter is selected for MRCA rather than souped-up Gen 2&3 fighters which will not give IAF any seperiority over Paf Fizzer’ya or PLAAF !
Remember, Pak already knew about pros and cons of the Gnat fighters (again through ETPS and NATO academy in Canada). Proved by the fact that the Gnat that landed in Pak by mistake was flown by one of the pilots trained on Gnat to Karachi.
I know this post is tangential to the topic and for that I apologise.
MKI will guarantee superiority for the present and which ever variant of MRCA IAF chooses it will be considerably advanced than any fighter in the PAF arsenal.
I do not think just knowing, operating or training on your enemy’s fighter will cause much of a difference in actual war. Because all major Air Forces do have some idea about their adversaries strengths and weaknesses. If the IAF do want to get their hands on F 16s, they can may be strike a deal with Israel for eg.
This is why F 16 is a serious contender for the MRCA. If India acquires this, we can use it in DACT with MKIs and other models, which will allow us to perfect strategies of the F 16s against Chinese Su 27s as well as MKIs against Pakistani F 16s.
😀
ante_climaxYet, we know little about the J-XX (J-14)??? While, it may not be the equal to US 5th Generation Types? (i.e. F-22 & F-35) It could still be close and if the PLAAF was equipped with great numbers. A serious threat nonetheless….:eek:
Some USAF F 22s stationed in Japan will help in the unlikely scenario of Chinese coming up with a fighter better than the JSF.
ante_climaxWell, if the USAF does get its 60 extra Raptors. The Japanese still have time to get the US to change there minds on exporting the type. Which, considering the US economy. I don’t think that would be a hard sell………
Odds are the Japanese will get the F-35 and quite possibly the F-22 at some point. So, the Typhoon is still a long shot in my book. IMO
Why not go for some latest model F 15s like the Koreans did, It would still be able to match anything North Korea/China throws at them and with JSF it can form a lethal combo.
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