Says who?

Please read what I wrote again – India has a range of options at its disposal. These options exist. They dont mean war.

Unfortunately, its politicians & bureaucrats are unable to do anything because of the reasons I mentioned above. They simply dont care, unless it affects their reelection chances. And even there, as the performance of several state Govts indicates, make enough money during your time in power, and even elections dont matter.

Please number out the options we have ? Like Blocking Karachi port ? It will antagonise America and they may intervene because their shipments to Afghanistan go through the region.

Wrong. The UPA came to power because the opposition could not mount a coherent campaign or convince the public it was going to be substantially different, and the public, did the good old, doing nothing is doing something, philosophy.

You are creating another false sock puppet here when you insinuate that war is the only option. It isnt. There are a range of covert & overt options that can hit the perpetrators of terror both within & outside India.

UPA came to power because majority of the public is not that concerned about accusations like being soft on terror. Like akj pointed out only a minority is really affected by terror strikes and all that. In a country of a billion it will never be a big issue like it was in America. The people would vote for the party who will do more for the common people. The UPA government has broken fresh ground with their rural employment guarantee program and other pro poor measures. That is worth more than any national security interests for the majority of the people.

The military is made up of Indian citizens who are not infinite in number nor are their human and economic costs lesser.

Furthermore, a nonstop quasi war situation just moves up the deterrence -escalation matrix and makes future action that much riskier.

In effect, by not stopping the constant escalation of the terror war, the GOI is setting itself up for something it cannot start.

And that is exactly what has occurred. All the GOI can do is wave its finger and threaten overt war, because it has locked itself out of other options, thanks to its own mendacity, institutional inertia & craven concerns (votebanks and re-election versus national exigencies).

You are again showing your totalitarian side.

National interest for a democracy is always the interest of the majority of the people. And not born out of pride of a minority who wants to glorify the nation and project power. A government which has been voted back in for stability and continuity has to protect and safe guar exactly that. More people would suffer in the economic conseuquences of a war alone than from any terror attack that has ever happend here.

I will say this again. Military is just a tool at safe guarding the naiton. It is there to serve a represtnative government. Its interests must be the interests of the government. I am proud of a military establishment that has never stepped out of line. 🙂

Incorrect at every level. The people who died at the railway station were not middle class. Go find out about their names. The taxi drivers killed were nowhere near middle class.

In fact, in the vast majority of cases, everyday Indians who have died, come from the lower economic strata and the lower middle income strata. They are the ones who commonly use public transportation & are more vulnerable to mass terror attacks.

The people who die in droves in naxalite violence, whether civil or state servants are almost always, below middle class standards.

A taxi driver in mumbai compares fairly well to a farmer in rural India. To people who have been benifited by the governments welfare plans.

Naxalism is tackled wrongly here. In states in the north east the BJP led governments have forumlated millitias to fight Naxals and jail civil right activists. Naxalism exists because of poor living conditions. I hail from Kerala, because the communist government did proper land reforms here after independence the naxal movement died out as quickly as it started. Naxalism can only be tackled socially.

The imbecilic decisions taken by successive GOI’s after independence are a matter of public record. Do you know how ULFA became an issue? Or how the NE was successively declared open grounds for illegal immigration?

India’s so called elected leaders have done such a horrible job at times, that its embarassing. Second, bringing in other nations worse leaders is pointless – the issue is our folks should have done much more. They didnt.

I suggest you actually research the topic more, starting from India’s economic policies to how corruption was institutionalized in the Indian state.

In a democracy the poeple alwyas have the power to vote out a bad government. If and when they do not it is an indication that the incumbent government has done more good than bad according to majority of the people.

Now in the case of India this may not have been true a few decades ago but right now it is very much true.

And unlike you i fully respect the mandate of the people. I will never wish for a military or dictatorial regime that is better than our current democracy.

Please dont make a mockery of yourself by making such statements.

If this is the level of your debate, then I’d rather not even waste my time responding to your comments.

I spoke the truth. I am telling you again. Even if another 26/11 happens India will not go to war with Pakistan. What did the NDA do after the parliament attacks ? An elected government has to consider the economic, political and civilian cost of war and not just the mood at the moment.

USA became bankrupt fighting vastly inferior forces that too despite being the worlds richest nation. India cannot risk war with Pakistan at the moment. I am sorry. I do believe that in future our time will come.

I hope for the sake of the western world that F-35 doesn’t become yet another LM made hangar queen.

Yet another ? You have a long list of LM made hanger queens i suppose ?

The only viable partner for the MCA is SAAB. EF consortium and Dassault don’t have plans for a fifth gen fighter. Boeing is far too risky for India because of US laws.

First batch of pilots trained on Hawks to pass out on June 19

M.B. Girish

Bidar: “The training on Hawk advanced jet trainer (AJT) aircraft has made pilots confident. With higher level of knowledge and skill, they will perform well while handling frontline fighter squadron,” outgoing Air Officer Commanding of Air Force Station, Bidar Ramesh Rai, has said.

Air Officer Commanding Rai has been promoted as Air Vice Marshal and posted to the Maintenance Command as Senior Air and Administrative Staff Officer at Nagpur. He will hand over the command at a ceremony at AFS, Bidar on Monday. Rai, Air Officer Commanding of Air Force Station in Bidar, had taken charge on May 1, 2007.

In an interview to The Hindu here on Saturday, Air Officer Commanding Ramesh Rai said, “The first batch of pilots trained on Hawk advanced jet trainer (AJT) aircraft will pass out on June 19 at the Air Force Station in Bidar.” Advanced Jet Trainer Hawk was formally inducted into the Indian Air Force at a function in Bidar, Karnataka, February 23, 2008.

“It was long-standing requirement of the Indian Air Force to induct Hawks and the Bidar Air Force Station was chosen for training pilots on the advanced jet trainers,” he said.

Air Officer Commanding Ramesh Rai said during his tenure at the Air Force Station in Bidar the most significant event was the induction of the Hawks into the IAF. “Since Bidar was the only air base which imparted training on Hawks for pilots in the country, Bidar will be the finest air base in the country in future,” he said.

On the career in the IAF, Air Officer Commanding Rai said, “As modernisation of the Indian Air Force is happening at a faster rate those joining the IAF have a promising career.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/01/stories/2009060156300800.htm

The Leadership in India understands the situation clearly. That is why there have been restraint after the november attacks. While hot blooded fools can call for action the government will always know it should never go to war unless absolutley necessary. No cost is too much to avoid a Nuclear war not even Pride.

Co-development is the best way and best route for Russia and India , so all future projects should be co-developed so that the synergy between both countries R&D organisation can be fully exploited , the more such projects the merrier.

With Russia, Israel and the West. Clearly JVs are a way forward. But when you need things right away off the shelf purchases of mature products like the SH or F16 is the way forward.

The GOI does not change policy based on individuals , policy is based on larger national interests , or some person coming will not make it pro this or that , the present policy of friendly relations with all will continue.

Actually they do. The Foriegn policy has significantly changed since the NDA government tenure. The UPA has in effect almost allied India with the US. News is out that an agreement for the mutual use of military and civilian facilities is going to be signed with the USA. The US has similar agreements with many countries but for India i think it is a first. The writing is on the wall if you don’t see it yet then thats rather sad.

China-India relations are more of fight for strategic space , which can be countered economically , defence and diplomatically.

India-Pakistan relation is more of Pakistan desire to bleed india by thousand wounds , every defence procurement or WMD are Indian centric , which even they admit.

They support terrorism and kill innocent people every where in India the latest being 26/11, we are more in a proxy war with Pakistan a war which bleeds India every day.

So any weapons supplied to Pakistan by US or China will have one goal to be used against India.

Hence the double game of US of supplying quality weapons like AMRAAM/F-16 will effect India badly , not to mention the economic benefit in the name of fighting Taliban which is a pakistani creation and a way for Pakistan to gain more money from US.

That is because Pakistan has only one hostile neighbout ie. India. Now like you I don’t want Pakistans military capability to increase. But I know that every country needs to defend itself and will arm itself accordingly. It would make no sense to have WMDs Amraams or Block 52s against the Taliban would it ? Be real and pragmatic and know that if not the USA there will be other countries supplying Pakistan. It is a buyers market. SAAB has sold them AWACS, China selling them fighters, Russians choppers and fighter engines, French has sold fighters in the past and are upgrading them now. Possible French radar and avionics + weapons may be used in in JF 17.

Like IAF chief stated in his interview. It is not ideal for your enemy to have the same weapons as you do, but some times you cannot help it. America will fund Pakistan whether we buy US weapons or not. If Pakistan has the money India cannot stop anyone from selling weapons to them. India will run out of suppliers if they stick to that. If India wants such a partner who would never sell weapons to Pakistan then we better stick to israel.

Sure let them build their own engine first

Well the optimists here are saying the Kaveri would be ready for the MCA.

China and US are both arming Pakistan , so why should we subsidize US arms industry , so that they can arm pakistan further and better ?

Like I said why do you not mention Russia France and Sweden ? If for example for the MRCA we decide not to buy from countries selling to Pakistan, I think we will end up with the Eurofigher as the only option.

Firstly, Russian arms sales to Pakistan have been on since 1993, with the delivery of helicopters, GPS jammers, and upto now with RD-93 engines for their JF-17 fleet. Russia will also be supplying the Al-31 engines to Pakistan’s upcoming J-10 purchase. Secondly, China had rejected the PAK-FA many years ago for their indigenous J-XX.

This is a point that many overlooks. The Soviet Union supported and subisidised India to get a foothold in the region. Russia meanwhile has many options. It is playing its cards for its own interests, for example there is a chance of Pakistan turning away from US for its fighters after the current F 16 deal.

Till we develop the capabilities indigenously we will have to buy from other countries whose strategic aims may not be in line with ours. This is one of the strong points with the Gripen because Sweden unlike the big powers do not have any stake in the region.

Black Hawk ?

In thought the competiton was for attack Helis.