ante_climaxJapan is our best Ally in the region even more so than the U.S when it comes to Navies. America can always make peace with China (however unlikely) but Japan and India well there is an alliance which can keep China out by itself, especially if Japan gets rid of the pacifist crap.
ante_climaxIts funny how they simulated the R 77M which is not out yet. I am sure it would be a good match for the Meteor as will be the next gen AIM 120s
ante_climaxAll I said was the expense and complexity of the composites outweight their advantages. Especially for a country like India who aimed too high with the LCA a more practical design with less composites may have been better.
The UPA is coming back to power. I guess that means American jets for MRCA.
ante_climaxIf they are really gearing or training for such mission, there should not be these kind of news, all that should be very secretive
They know they can’t, so they are doing a lot of show, to press the iran’s politicians (or at least , the dumb ones)
You apparently apply the same rules to Israel as you do with everyone else. But you have to know Israel is not like other countries. It will do anything and even lose half its people if needed to ensure its survival. They bombed the reactors in Iraq killed that canadian guy who made the long range gun etc. They really will not wait for American consent.
If I was Israel i would suffer a few non-nuclear ballistic missile strikes now rather than let my enemy have a Nuclear Warhead.
ante_climaxComposites are just expensive trash and not worth the money you invest in them in my opinion. Mostly composites are LCA is still over weight. While the metal JF 17 is doing allright.
ante_climaxNow it would be awesome if India can take the relationship with Israel to the next level and conduct some DACT with Israeli F 16s and Indian Mig 29s.
ante_climaxIndia to get delivery of first nuclear submarine by year end
No news on the ATV. 🙁 Indigenous sub project is delayed it seems.
ante_climaxUnder DPP, Taiwanese gov’t was seeking economic independence from China by trying to initiate more relationship with India and Japan. Guess what, none of that helped. The Taiwanese businessmen chose to all invest in mainland due to culture and language issues and just greater market access. And now under KMT, it’s actually favouring engagement with mainland, so this will only end up with more economic dependence on China. The current economic downturn has only shown how much Taiwan really need China. And I think eventually they will be able to come to an agreement similar to the one with Hong Kong, although with Taiwan getting more sovereignty because it does have more bargaining power. Really, China needs to re-unite with Taiwan so that it’s fleet no longer has to face that Taiwan naval/air force blockage before reaching the first chain.
Like I Said how China persue it would be the key. A peaceful integration cannot be prevented by anyone but I believe any use of force will not be tolerated by the Americans. Or else there would have been that by now.
Australia has far more to gain in the future by not favouring US over China, since it looks like China will become the world’s largest economy in 20 years. Even in the recent economic downturn, the first spring awakening Australia is seeing right now is due to renewed Chinese demands. The biggest obstacle I think is the military community. Who has a natural alliance with USA and doesn’t seem to realize that China has nothing to gain by threatening Australia.
I am sorry but if you look at past conflicts you will say that when fundamental issues are in question, then economics will always take back seat. A country with natural resources can sell it to anyone, China or another country for that matter. If Australia did not fear China it would not outline the 2030 budget plan. Like I stated above, I do not believe a hot war is going to happen, what I think will happen is the regional powers spending more and uniting to put a united front against china, which will act as a credible deterence till the end of the next cold war.
As for US, I really don’t see US as a long term enemy of China either. The short term conflict between the two is Taiwan and the long term conflict is power struggle in Pacific ocean. Provided the Taiwan situation is resolved, that will dramatic lower chance of hostility. In the long term, I think US will accept the economic power of China due to the economic dependence of the two countries. It really isn’t a coincidence that each US administration has become more and more friendly toward PRC as trade grew and American dependence on Chinese credit grew. And with that, the 7th fleet will have to eventually accept that it has to share space with PLAN. US is already abandoning Japan by embracing China as its partner to bring the world out of this economic depression. If anything, US should be more worried about CNY taking over USD as the world’s de-factor currency rather than a military conflict. I could go on and talk about why these two countries really need each other, but it’s getting really late and I’m not even making sense to myself right now.
There was a paper published by the US intelligence community I believe which stated five likely scenarios for the future ie. 2030. None of which had a close relationship between China and United States. Yes there is economic co-operation now but that is nothing but a measure against a global catastrophe. Russians sided with the West against the Nazis, Western help was sough with Chernobyl, this is also something that affects the whole worlds and china and America co operating on that means virtually nothing.
Which brings us to Japan and India. There are actually historical reasons for future animosity between China and Japan. And I don’t think that’s going to change, so I always thought there was a greater chance of China going to war with Japan than Taiwan. You see, nobody in China wants to get in a war with Taiwan, but they do want to whip Japan. And it’s clear that Indians on this board really don’t like China (and I assume this reflects the general public view or at least the view amongst the ruling elites). So, I’d think Japan would be most willing to partner up with you.
If you look back at history from the time of Chinese independence to the Indo Chinese war. India stood by China in every move. It did not do anything with the Tibet invasion. It was offered China’s seat in the security council but refused to accept it. The current animosity has a lot to do with China’s insistance in not considering India a strong regional player. As for Japan I do not think America wil desert here, and India and Australia will aid her. She will not be alone fi she has to face up to China.
ante_climaxYou’re looking in the wrong place. Don’t look at the USA, look at Taiwan.
Exactly. And that’s what will happen, eventually. You need to look at what’s going on there. The most popular political party at the moment is in favour of ever closer integration, & not keen on spending money on weapons or otherwise provoking China. There are 40 flights a day to China from Taiwan now, & that’s rapidly increasing, a million Chinese visitors a year (also growing very fast indeed), & several hundred thousand (some estimates say a million) Taiwanese working on the mainland. Without any fighting, Taiwan is turning into what China wants it to be, and voluntarily.
There will be no war. Taiwan will continue to govern itself, but will gradually let its armed forces run down, & eventually tacitly accept Chinese control over its foreign policy, Chinese defence guarantees, & thus become the “Special entity” China promises it will be allowed to be, if it will only recognise the real government of China is in Beijing. At that point, there will no longer be anything for the USA or anyone else to fight for.
That is acceptable, I was just pointing out Taiwan as one instance. It is essentially for the people of Taiwan to decide.
If you follow Chinese strategy you know they plan to expand their control well outside the Taiwan region, Taiwan is only the first step, the second stage includes control of the seas up to Philippines and the third even to Japan. She is also making serious inroads to Indian power base of South Asia especially Indian ocean.
To prevent aggression there is a need for India United States and Japan (possibly Australia once the Sinophile is off power) to form an alliance. Such an alliance will keep China in check and prevent future wars. China is more likely to be aggressive towards some one who is weaker than her, like India or Japan or Australia but not against an alliance of these countries and the U.S which would be more than a match for her.
ante_climaxAnte,
People forget how long the British have been doing things like this and how much experience we have. Dont make the same mistake. The British defeatist mentality as you put it is a recognition of reality borne out of a very long history of watching and participating in those events.
Swerve is quite right. People everywhere love a winner and those who care little for tradition and history, in Taiwan, will see the mainland as an economic powerhouse that is closely related and look for common ground. Some kind of autonomy will always be demanded for the islands, obviously, but the solution to that whole situation became clear when the Chinese economy stepped up and, now, its only a matter of time for the acrimony to be replaced by something more progressive and equitable. Once the political differences have faded Taiwan will have a lot to gain by hitching its wagons to the mainland at that point and very little to lose – that much is glaringly obvious.
There will be no military conflict over Taiwan as the RoC will get what it wanted all along – a mainland open to its political status and economically progressive and the PRC will get to settle the ‘two China’s’ issue and get access to the prime resource on Taiwan – its people and skills.
As for defeatism wait and see what happens in Iraq once to US surge is wrapped up and the troops leave. If the populace dont have the strength to stand up to the Mahdi’s and fight for their democracy then the US has to stay in place until the value of that democracy is fiercely ingrained into the next generation, who will fight for it, or admit failure. Simple calculus the US extends its stay in Iraq for another decade or two or accept the very probable chance of defeat in pulling out before ‘freedom’ fully takes root.
Remember the old adage ‘you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink’. We’ve learned that lesson over the centuries now its others turn to learn it. When you are a bit older you might understand that better.
I disagree. The issues and defeats came to Britain only during the 20th century before that she was tough and even when she suffered set backs that did not deter her (like the Afghan war).
Sadly the Britian of today seems to be full of appeasement loving Chamberlain’s rather than straight talking Churchills and Thatchers.
The only reason why a modern state cannot establish an empire is because of the emphasis on values. When the British committed atrocities in South Africa and India the world hardly cared, but when America uses torture against terrorism suspects everyone cares and there is a big issue.
🙂 I believe in this though that whenever people who have the power to change things did nothing about them, the world has suffered. It will again if you let something like the rise of China go unchecked.
Oh and British have been doing things successfully before they resorted to defeatism, they built an empire did they not…why not learn from the building phase of that empire rather than its disintegration ? For me I would be happy if India is a world power for a century rather than being on the periphery forever. :diablo:
ante_climaxBut there won’t be any war over Taiwan. It’ll fall into Chinas hands eventually, like a ripe peach. It’s rapidly becoming the autonomous but economically integrated province China says it wants it to be. There’s no place for India there. The locals don’t want your help.
Meanwhile, China is buying up the Indian ocean & Africa from under your nose. Look to your own back yard first, before worrying about grand adventures in distant lands. The place to contain China is off your own shores.
Again short term thinking. I agree that Indian leaders lack vision with regards to China but the path is clear.
Dear Swerve, If there is going to be a grand alliance between India, U.S and Japan (I believe there will be as the Chinese power expands) then I believe these countries will form an alliance ie. binding as the NATO is. In such a case any act of war against any country in the alliance would be dealt with jointly.
Now before you start talking about third world war. Such an alliance will ensure that China do not become to adventerous, just like NATO kept Soviets out of Western Europe such an alliance will keep China out of wider South East Asia.
And your notions about Taiwan being ripe to pick is laughable at best. It reflects on the current British defeatist mentality, something we hear from British generals in Afghanistan while Americans remain confident. The only way Taiwan is going to be part of China is if the people of Taiwan decide to do so, otherwise as long as there is USA it will not happen.
Great Britian used to be a Great Empire now its full of self doubters and defeatists who don’t mind seeing another power rise behind an iron curtain.
😎 Hopefully Americans will have enough of Obama soon and Australians of Ruud. 🙂 Looking forward to the days when India America, Australia etc are again governed by Neo Cons.
ante_climaxWouldn’t have any effect on a war between China & India. They’d be in the wrong place, & isolated. If they took action against China, they’d be unable to use any local ports for fear of internment, as for another country to permit them to operate against China from its ports would be an act of war against China.
There will be a China containment strategy, it does not mean war with China. The goal is in having enough troop resources on her border with India and on the Taiwan straight.
So she cannot concentrate fully on one issue. 🙂 China containment means having enough power to hit back against any aggression from her on the land border with India and on Taiwan and other regions. It does not necessarily mean war, it may well lead to China understanding the fact that as long as she spends on millitary her neighbors will spend on theirs as well, and that collectively their forces will equal hers. That arming herself for a future conflict will not be sustainable to her.
That my friends is the next cold war in the making. 🙂
ante_climax“Global power” … .
You won’t be Chucking by 2020 :).
Having a few Aegis ships and parking them alongside American and Japanese ones near the Taiwan straight may be a good check against Chinese power.
ante_climaxI am sorry but India is evolving into a global power with plans to have a blue water Navy. Something like the Aegis can defend key assets aboard as well. 🙂
Don’t tell me that the American Aegis ships near Japan are defending the continental United States.
ante_climaxIndia does not need Aegis system . it has no need for Sea Based BM defence.
India Naval Ships will be standardising on Elta 2248 AESA and Barak-8 LRSAM
This whole Aegis selling business is a hot air , much like the proposal to sell PAC-3 is a marketing gimmick.
It is not. It may be your worst nightmare Austin. I expect this and the PAC 3 deal to happen during the next (UPA) governments tenure. Wanna bet about it 😀
I think Project 15 B may have Aegis. And please don’t talk bull**** about what India does need and does not need, that is not for you and I to decide. Apparently India is interested and with such an offer the deal will be on 🙂
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