ante_climaxThe above is a logistics and maintenance issue only. Su-30 MKI can also be made to be “hassle free” in terms of maintenance etc.
Su-30 MKI will also be equipped with all types of A2G weapons, especially HARM-type missiles, precision guided munitions, Brahmos missile, etc.
Lifecycle costs for Russian Jets are higher than that of American jets. The Russian array of A2G weaponary is also quantitatively and Qualitatively inferior to its western counter parts. This is especially true with PGMs and bunker busters.
As per DRDO, Tejas will have significant sensor fusion. As Tejas’ technologies have extensively been adapted and tested on Su-30 MKI, it is likely that Su-30 MKI shall also be equipped with this too.
Which is very good to know but i doubt the Tejas or Su 30 will be able to compare with the latest American/European tech. ToT for MRCA is to bridge the gap in this regard. Let us first see MK2 specs atleast before commending on sensor fusion.
With the exception of AESA radar, Tejas will be at par with all other MRCA contenders in terms of Litening targetting pod (used in F-16 Sufa), datalink & networking, EW (Siva pod), RWR, sensor fusion, HMDS, IRST etc.
Since the fuselage will be redesigned, it is likely to allow for additional weapon stations under the fuselage, as it did for Gripen-NG.
I severely doubt as to the Tejas MK2 will be as good as the Gripen NG. It don’t need to be and I don’t think it will be, like I said let us wait and see.
he above is inaccurate. As discussed earlier on the same topic, Mr. Pogosyan of Sukhoi stated that only a “broad” agreement has been reached after 2 years and a “detailed” agreement is only “hoped” to be reached by 2009 end. He stated that, they’ll “try” to include a 50-50 contrib from India in the “detailed” agreement that they hope to reach.
It will be 50-50 the link was posted by Otaku in another thread where he clearly states it will be a 50-50 joint venture. I don’t feel like digging up the thread at the moment.
ante_climaxAmerican engine for a Chinese military aircraft. Now I have seen it all.
ante_climaxAmerican engine for a Chinese military aircraft. Now I have seen it all.
ante_climaxSlumdog was a British film with an Indian cast and crew, so it doing well at Oscars is good for Britain. In my opinion its very over rated and there have been at least a dozen or so Indian movies with nearly the same theme and not all of them in Hindi.
man, there is so much discussion. I think we need new thread for every month or even less. half of the posts will be ante_climax or scooters.
Making a thread is rather is easy is it not. Next time we should add pictures of current and historical aircraft, the insignia the command structure etc. in the first post :).
Maritime Air Operations to be under IAF’s Southern Air Command
Written on February 20, 2009 – 4:17 pm | by Frontier India Strategic and Defence |In an indication of growing importance of Southern Air Command, the Maritime Air Operations (MAO) Headquarters based in Mumbai will be placed under it. The new arrangements will come into effect from April 1, 2009. This was announced by Air Marshal S Radhakrishnan, AOC-in-C of Southern Air Command (SAC) here today. Currently the MAO Hqs in Mumbai is under the control of Gandhinagar based South-Western Air Command of IAF. Thus, air support for maritime activities will now be controlled by SAC.
While interacting with media during the ongoing IAF Exercise ‘DAKSHIN PRAHAR’, Air Marshal Radhakrishnan said an Aerostat Radar with the capability of picking up targets at lower ranges will be established in two years.
IAF is conducting Exercise DAKSHIN PRAHAR to validate the concept of flexi use of air space from 18th February and will end on 25th February 2009. During the exercise, IAF and Airport Authority of India (AAI) officials are constantly in touch on daily basis and the information is being shared regarding flight plans so that civil air traffic is not affected, Air Marshal Radhakrishnan said. On each day of the exercise, a certain target is fixed in carefully crafted corridor in coordination with AAI and modern tactics of using combat air power is being practiced.
State of the art fighter aircraft such as Sukhoi 30 MKI, Mirage 2000 and upgraded versions of maritime Jaguar are taking part in the exercise. The maritime Jaguars can carry special weapons required for maritime operations. Aircraft are also being operated from Bangalore, Pune and Goa, in addition to Thiruvananthapuram, he said. All the combat aircraft are capable of air-to-air refueling by the IL- 78s which are strategically positioned to increase the reach of fighters to go around the peninsula without refueling. AN-32s, Avro and Mi-8 are providing vital transport support and perform communication duties during the exercise.
http://frontierindia.net/maritime-air-operations-to-be-under-iafs-southern-air-command
🙂 Will this mean more Aircraft are coming to Trivandrum :).
ante_climaxSlumdog was a British film with an Indian cast and crew, so it doing well at Oscars is good for Britain. In my opinion its very over rated and there have been at least a dozen or so Indian movies with nearly the same theme and not all of them in Hindi.
man, there is so much discussion. I think we need new thread for every month or even less. half of the posts will be ante_climax or scooters.
Making a thread is rather is easy is it not. Next time we should add pictures of current and historical aircraft, the insignia the command structure etc. in the first post :).
Maritime Air Operations to be under IAF’s Southern Air Command
Written on February 20, 2009 – 4:17 pm | by Frontier India Strategic and Defence |In an indication of growing importance of Southern Air Command, the Maritime Air Operations (MAO) Headquarters based in Mumbai will be placed under it. The new arrangements will come into effect from April 1, 2009. This was announced by Air Marshal S Radhakrishnan, AOC-in-C of Southern Air Command (SAC) here today. Currently the MAO Hqs in Mumbai is under the control of Gandhinagar based South-Western Air Command of IAF. Thus, air support for maritime activities will now be controlled by SAC.
While interacting with media during the ongoing IAF Exercise ‘DAKSHIN PRAHAR’, Air Marshal Radhakrishnan said an Aerostat Radar with the capability of picking up targets at lower ranges will be established in two years.
IAF is conducting Exercise DAKSHIN PRAHAR to validate the concept of flexi use of air space from 18th February and will end on 25th February 2009. During the exercise, IAF and Airport Authority of India (AAI) officials are constantly in touch on daily basis and the information is being shared regarding flight plans so that civil air traffic is not affected, Air Marshal Radhakrishnan said. On each day of the exercise, a certain target is fixed in carefully crafted corridor in coordination with AAI and modern tactics of using combat air power is being practiced.
State of the art fighter aircraft such as Sukhoi 30 MKI, Mirage 2000 and upgraded versions of maritime Jaguar are taking part in the exercise. The maritime Jaguars can carry special weapons required for maritime operations. Aircraft are also being operated from Bangalore, Pune and Goa, in addition to Thiruvananthapuram, he said. All the combat aircraft are capable of air-to-air refueling by the IL- 78s which are strategically positioned to increase the reach of fighters to go around the peninsula without refueling. AN-32s, Avro and Mi-8 are providing vital transport support and perform communication duties during the exercise.
http://frontierindia.net/maritime-air-operations-to-be-under-iafs-southern-air-command
🙂 Will this mean more Aircraft are coming to Trivandrum :).
ante_climaxEvery man, even if he is a truly excellent journalist has his opinions. Bill Sweetman was just expressing his. Now because he is Bill Sweetman many of us may take what he said as is or wait till the F 35 is operational and reserve our judgment till then. I will do the latter :).
ante_climaxEvery man, even if he is a truly excellent journalist has his opinions. Bill Sweetman was just expressing his. Now because he is Bill Sweetman many of us may take what he said as is or wait till the F 35 is operational and reserve our judgment till then. I will do the latter :).
ante_climaxWell, the issue is not being resolved either way! So, it makes you wonder…..unless you believe its somehow India’s fault???:mad:
It is our fault to be still dealing with them in this issue. And signing up for future projects with them.
The flaws of Russian stuff has been known for ages, The T 72 – T 90 tanks for example suffer from a lot of design flaws which make the turret explode when hit.
Yet the Army chose to buy 1000 T 90s instead of Arjuns, the designs of which is based on the Leopard :cool:.
There are fundamental flaws in procurement and corruption within the armed forces and MoD. As long as that continues the Russians will have a good foothold.
ante_climaxWe will surely find out in the coming weeks/months won’t we ??
ante_climaxThe problem is not this deal alone, we have a lot of joint projects with Russians the Su 30 MKI deliveries are not complete. PAK FA, Frigates, Space programme etc. So India can only talk tough to a certain extent.
ante_climaxBrahmos was also a JV, but it was neverthless based on Yakhont. we would probably see PAK-FA being something similar. But even that way India would have IP and own aircrafts technologies for which India invested or developed.
Much better than outright purchase.
You just said we don’t even knwo specs of Tejas 2. Then how are u saying it will have real gap even in Mk2 form. your contradicting yourself.
give me one reason from known facts that creates a GAP between Tejas Mk2 and Super western fighters. BTW the only fighter with which you can really compare is Gripen NG.
i can’t see any gap between them.
We are not yet there to develop the sensor fusion and other techs that has gone into most of the MRCA contenders. The Gripen NG will have superior Avionics, AESA radar etc. The LCA is the first step I do not expect it to be better than the western competitors at this stage.
ante_climaxBrahmos was also a JV, but it was neverthless based on Yakhont. we would probably see PAK-FA being something similar. But even that way India would have IP and own aircrafts technologies for which India invested or developed.
Much better than outright purchase.
You just said we don’t even knwo specs of Tejas 2. Then how are u saying it will have real gap even in Mk2 form. your contradicting yourself.
give me one reason from known facts that creates a GAP between Tejas Mk2 and Super western fighters. BTW the only fighter with which you can really compare is Gripen NG.
i can’t see any gap between them.
We are not yet there to develop the sensor fusion and other techs that has gone into most of the MRCA contenders. The Gripen NG will have superior Avionics, AESA radar etc. The LCA is the first step I do not expect it to be better than the western competitors at this stage.
ante_climaxno Scooter, it is quite difficult for India to accept such restrictions, India hasn’t yet signed EUM for P-8. we have been told that India is adamant on indepdenent foreign policy and sovereignity. even if we did sacrifice foreign policy for better relationship with US, its question of keeping arms, AF fleet classified and not give access to anybody.
The weapons they are inspecting are supplied by them, so there is nothing about them that is not known to them. We can choose not to buy U.S arms but America will not change its rules for anyone.
The p8I deal is going to be agreed soon and the universal deal which deals with all arms imports from America shortly after, it would govern future procurements. Still if the IAF/IN etc feels they have no problems then it will all be fine.
See, F-18, Rafale and Typhoon can carry as many weapons — by number & weight — as a Su-30 MKI does, for the same range and the same cost per hour. Thus, as their capability is met by the Su-30 MKI already, so their inclusion in the IAF is needless.
Their specs vis-a-vis Su-30 MKI matter. I used the phrase, “twin-engined contenders”, to specify which of the 4 contenders out of 6, I was referring to. Their engine number per se was not part of the argument.
I ask you again why do you judge planes by their weapon specs. As ajay pointed out European/U.S machines are easier on the maintenance side and have higher availability rate. The US/ European A2G weapons are more numerous and offer much more options. The Flanker is an air superiority fighter the MRCA focus is more on A2G. The Flanker do not have the level of sensor fusion and related technologies offered by many of the MRCA contenders.
T
he above is inaccurate. The 2 single-engined contenders carry the same number of weapons as Tejas Mk.2 (as it will get multiple-launchers). Combat radius will be same, because although total fuel carried is higher, their weights are also proportionately much higher than Tejas. Besides, after fuselage re-design Tejas Mk.2 will also carry more fuel.
Hence, between themselves Tejas and Su-30 MKI meet all the MRCA requirements fully.
We don’t even know the specs of Tejas 2 yet. So anything you say like multiple launchers is speculation. Tejas is a fine indigenous project, but it will still have real technological gap compared to European and American platforms even in the MK2 form. The Tejas is a stepping stone to higher things.
The above is inaccurate. IAF is also “hell-bent” on purchasing the PAK-FA. Merely to give it some legitimacy as a ’50-50 joint venture’, India may “tweak” it to make a twin-seater (which itself is a duplicative effort because Russia will make the trainer version anyway).
That it is a 50-50 venture is confirmed by both the Russians and Indians. The MCA meanwhile is going to be an advanced fourth gen fighter according to some reports and not a fifth gen. However I see the MRCA as the last outright fighter purchase from IAF. The IN may buy more Mig 29Ks/JSF etc in future.
ante_climaxno Scooter, it is quite difficult for India to accept such restrictions, India hasn’t yet signed EUM for P-8. we have been told that India is adamant on indepdenent foreign policy and sovereignity. even if we did sacrifice foreign policy for better relationship with US, its question of keeping arms, AF fleet classified and not give access to anybody.
The weapons they are inspecting are supplied by them, so there is nothing about them that is not known to them. We can choose not to buy U.S arms but America will not change its rules for anyone.
The p8I deal is going to be agreed soon and the universal deal which deals with all arms imports from America shortly after, it would govern future procurements. Still if the IAF/IN etc feels they have no problems then it will all be fine.
See, F-18, Rafale and Typhoon can carry as many weapons — by number & weight — as a Su-30 MKI does, for the same range and the same cost per hour. Thus, as their capability is met by the Su-30 MKI already, so their inclusion in the IAF is needless.
Their specs vis-a-vis Su-30 MKI matter. I used the phrase, “twin-engined contenders”, to specify which of the 4 contenders out of 6, I was referring to. Their engine number per se was not part of the argument.
I ask you again why do you judge planes by their weapon specs. As ajay pointed out European/U.S machines are easier on the maintenance side and have higher availability rate. The US/ European A2G weapons are more numerous and offer much more options. The Flanker is an air superiority fighter the MRCA focus is more on A2G. The Flanker do not have the level of sensor fusion and related technologies offered by many of the MRCA contenders.
T
he above is inaccurate. The 2 single-engined contenders carry the same number of weapons as Tejas Mk.2 (as it will get multiple-launchers). Combat radius will be same, because although total fuel carried is higher, their weights are also proportionately much higher than Tejas. Besides, after fuselage re-design Tejas Mk.2 will also carry more fuel.
Hence, between themselves Tejas and Su-30 MKI meet all the MRCA requirements fully.
We don’t even know the specs of Tejas 2 yet. So anything you say like multiple launchers is speculation. Tejas is a fine indigenous project, but it will still have real technological gap compared to European and American platforms even in the MK2 form. The Tejas is a stepping stone to higher things.
The above is inaccurate. IAF is also “hell-bent” on purchasing the PAK-FA. Merely to give it some legitimacy as a ’50-50 joint venture’, India may “tweak” it to make a twin-seater (which itself is a duplicative effort because Russia will make the trainer version anyway).
That it is a 50-50 venture is confirmed by both the Russians and Indians. The MCA meanwhile is going to be an advanced fourth gen fighter according to some reports and not a fifth gen. However I see the MRCA as the last outright fighter purchase from IAF. The IN may buy more Mig 29Ks/JSF etc in future.
ante_climaxI’d say give the Viraat a major refit. Ask the Russians to give back the money and give back the Mig 29 Ks.
Its not like the Indian ocean is infested with carriers, we can do without one for a few years till the first IAC is out.
Wonder if the Kitty Hawk is still around :-??
Oh those Russians…..:(
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