The amazing thing is how little the Iranians are doing to prevent it! One could say they have a “hidden strategy”

Destroying a fueled and operating nuclear reactor on the shores of the Gulf, would cause more than a bit of a stir from the other Gulf states which survive off the water there for 100% of their needs. I don’t think anyone wants to destroy that reactor.

Kapedani, are these pics good enough for you?

Now why was that so hard?? 🙂

Can anyone comment on the wheel bay doors? Can it actually land with those things extended as they are?

This is getting fishier and smellier by the minute

The second picture looks just as much of a prop.

Just remember I called it first 😉

The first question that needs to be asked is, why are all the pictures so tiny and so grainy? Maybe…its just that much easier to fake these pics that way. If someone can get a view of this aircraft both from its side and its front, they can’t get a semi-decent picture of it?

Also, the canopy, the HUD, the whole front is suspiciously too close to the F-22.

Given all the mock-ups of all sorts of things the Chinese make, it wouldn’t be too crazy if this is some mock-up for some other purpose. And given the histroy with PS, thats not off the table.

The most “mis-understood” a/c in your opinion

The PAK-FA. No one can quite understand how awesome it is :p

and to spend up to 9 months per mission in space.

Why would it need to spend 9 months in space if it is unmanned? To act as a recoverable satellite?

It all comes down to a single thing – whether you want to discuss things or just troll around. I certainly don’t see anything on X-35’s skin that would be a league beyond anything else in terms of build quality. But that is probably because I don’t have Kapedani’s magical RCS testing eyesight.

I know some can’t understand it, but you can’t blame me for not trying.

What you are showing there is the X-35 prototype, which of course didn’t have anything in terms of RCS reduction features (apart from its general design).

Now I know the T-50 is equally a prototype, and I shouldn’t expect to see RCS reduction features on its skin as well. I’ve acknowledged this plenty of times before.

Again…some people’s inability to comprehend what I’m saying…isn’t my fault.

What I am saying is that…Sukhoi nor any other Russian company has NEVER demonstrated ANY sort of capability to develop or build anything comparable. They have never demonstrated that they even know how to.

And to develop the sort of RCS reduction techniques that LM has been working on for the past 30 years…will take a BIT more than 4-5 years.

This is why the T-50 prototype is anything but impressive. Its a nice super-cruise design, but as far as Stealth is concerned, its overall design is certainly far behind anything the US has, and as far as the DETAILS of RCS reduction…it not only doesn’t show any (which would be fine for a tech-demonstrator), but its parent company has never demonstrated the ability to build it.

———–

I have no problem with Sukhoi. I have a problem with the mumbling fanboys on here claiming this thing is somehow comparable to an F-35 in stealth.

ITS NOT…not by a long shot…not until Sukhoi demonstrates that it can build an aircraft using anything more than conventional techniques.

AND THAT IS THE POINT (which I’m certain none of the fanboys will get…since this is only the 5th time I’m saying it)

This is what an F-35 looks like up close

It goes from this

to this.

You will notice there are several different types of panels and panel joints and materials applied over the panels and joints. You’ll notice that most of those bolts and joints you can’t even see in the final product…except the ones which are designed to be spaced apart.

The technology in building these, the materials, the RAM types that go over these panels and into those joints etc…are the result of 30 years of continuous improvement from LM (and in fact the production F-35s in the future will undoubtedly have different materials used than these prototypes).

So UNTIL Sukhoi or anyone else in Russia…demonstrates the ability to build anything other than RAM that would have impressed someone in the 1970s maybe…and UNTIL they can demonstrate the capacity to integrate those materials and structural designs into an aircraft…

…then they’ve got nothing so far.

Not only the Russians, but even the Europeans haven’t demonstrated anything comparable. Sure you can slap on some RAM on top of the skin like they do with the Rafale. And sure you’ll get good results.

But the key here…is MAGNITUDE. You won’t get anywhere near the magnitude of RCS reduction, as the F-35 can get.

I know that. And to my knowledge, the purpose of the first T-50 flying prototype is exactly the same.

Yes I’ve said this on many occasions as well. Read above.

Foreign companies all do R&D in Russia cause Russian engineers are so damn good at sciences, but cost less than their Western over-the-top PPP country counterparts

Any engineer or scientist still doing work in Russia is either a failure or an idiot. You should see them at research institutions here in the US 😉

The main gains in stealth come by the materials at first.

Yes but you see…we can ASSUME the Russian engineers would have advanced beyond the materials used on the F-35. :p

Why not? I just read here the Russians have the best scientists and its a foregone conclusion that they would have. We don’t need to KNOW this. We can ASSUME it.

————————————————

I missed the time when the S-duct become the Holly Grial of Stealth. Torquemada is blaming Sukhoi engineers on blasphemy-design because ignoring the Holly Grial

No. I hear BANANA-Ducts are the new thing.

I don’t know. But very probably much less than originally planned

Certainly far less. They’ve already got UCAVs which will be a generation ahead in terms of stealth.

It doesn’t work that way. In real world, first the requirements are given. After that designs are compared. The design that achieves the given requirements at least risk and least cost gets chosen. Of course, this is purely technical/economical point of view, politics aside.

Of course, there are forum warriors who wouldn’t mind spending several GDPs just to make their favorite aircraft achieve M1.9 instead of M1.6 and frontal RCS of 0.00000000000000000001 instead of 0.00000000000000000002 but in real world, profitability and sustainability counts, comparing absolute numbers is a fanboy thing.

🙂 Thank you for that interesting explanation.

Actually what counts is what you can deliver…

You put way too much value on experience and very little on innovation.

I’ve already given you Lesson # 2 in life:

2) Innovation cannot be ASSUMED or PLANNED.

When you understand this point, you’ll understand what I’m saying better. And this complicates this a TINY bit more..when you are 30 years behind your nearest competitor. Try as you may…a shoe-string budget and luck…may, just may, not be enough 😉

It will be superior to F-35 in A-A due to much extended flight envelope/flight performance/SC/radar range/kinetic range of weapons/array of A-A missiles.. F-35 will have better situational awareness, more complex avionics and ECM.

🙂 And the only thing that counts in the real world is situational awareness, avionics and ECM. The T-50 can fly as fast and as air-showy as it wants…if it can’t see the F-35, it might as well go home.

Regarding the comparison with F-22, it will definitely be less stealthy. It will probably have higher top speed but lower SC speed. I would not be surprised to find out that it’s more maneuvrable and agile because Russian doctrine put great emphasis on that. Its avionics will be superior to what F-22 has today but inferior to what F-22 will have fielded by then.

Thats marvelous…tell me more :rolleyes:

That is how I expect it to be and so far your rant has not persuaded me about the opposite a tiniest bit.

It never had any hopes of…of course.

Sounds very mysterious. I have no doubt you’re gonna explain for all here what exactly it is INSIDE those ducts.

I have no clue. But the BASIC concept of it…isn’t rocket science.

Its people talking about blockers and…ahm…banana-ducts (hehe)…that don’t even understand the basic concept of what they’re talking about.

K, I give you a chance to demonstrate your knowledge. What RAM material types are planned to be used on T-50? Who is the maker?

I can’t pull s** out of my a** and talk about things that don’t exist 🙂

I leave that to people who can ASSUME things into existence 🙂

What I do know, is that the level of technology demonstrated by the Russians in this field…is far from impressive.

And that…is the POINT.

Who makes them for the F-35 and in what way do the American materials surpass the Russian competition?

In every way 😀 What a stupid question.

On the contrary, at the levels where T-50 or F-35 are, playing with intakes might be meaningless because there are other, bigger reflectors (engine cowling?) to care about.

Oh!! It was even worse than I had imagined. The engine cowling is in the BACK (lets not even go back there…the T-50 is a horrible design for that…straight out of an Su-27).

If you’re going to play with the Big Boys…down to the levels of stealth of an F-35…you better rethink that. If you want to play with the Euro fighters…maybe.

———————————

I really have to wonder not just about some peoples objectivity but also their sanity if they seriously think the build quality of the skin of PAK-FA is going to be a problem.

Thats only because you don’t understand what I’m saying…or what the ISSUE is.

But as I said, you can’t blame me for that.

and more importantly the PAK-FA and the Su-35 have damn near perfect skins already.

🙂 Yes…because THAT is what its about.

51 has no RAM coating installed

Again thats not the issue.

Its amazing…

The original X-35 prototype had some defects in its paneling as well.

Once more…not even the point 🙂

The point, as stated above…is the fact that what it takes to achieve the same levels of RCS reduction as the F-35 has…as far as external surface is concerned, not only isn’t present in any form on the T-50, but Sukhoi has never demonstrated the ability or know-how of anything of the sort.

And its not about how smooth or pretty the skin is. Sukhoi certainly has advanced light years compared to the crude constructions it did back in the 80s and early 90s. But thats not the point 🙂

The panel design, the tolerance level needed for creating panels to take on the types of RAM coatings, the materials, the RAM coatings themselves, the types of RAM for sealing joints, the type of RAM for sealing access panel joints, the structures behind the skin…etc etc etc…are issues which have nothing to do with how “smooth” Sukhoi has managed to get the skin on their prototypes (forgetting for a moment that they haven’t managed to do anything that isn’t entirely ordinary for 20 years already)

So all everyone here is doing is…ASSUMING…that through some stroke of LUCK or GENIUS…Sukhoi will manage to overcome 30 years of technology on a shoe-string budget, and do what it has never demonstrated the capability of doing.

Ok…but you shouldn’t be worrying about my sanity.

Ahh! I forgot…Russia strong!!! Of course they’ll manage to do it. How silly of me.