Actually arthur there’s several pics of Albania’s underground bases…

There were two in fact…equally important. There was Gjader in the North…which is similar (or very identical) to the Chinese tunnel you posted with the J-6s in it…as well as Zadrima AFB which also had two underground tunnels.

Besides airfields…there are many many many other underground facilities in Albania. The main command centers for major bases are located in multi-story underground bunkers…one nearby Tirana where a cousin of mine worked was 5 stories all underground…and many tanks and artillery are stored in underground tunnels.

Here are pics:

Entrance at Gjader

Inside

And these satellite photos I just discuovered on Google Earth

Entrance to one of the tunnels at Gjader (if you can find it)

Entrance to other tunnel

Connection between tunnels (circeled) and the main runway plus two auxilary runways

Zadrima…showing two entrances to underground tunnels

(these and many others are posted on the Albanian Air Force thread)

See how quickly we turn this into BS about Albania and a pissing contest?? You refuse to have a civili dsicussion on the rality of the Serbian AF…instead you throw around things about Su-30s and PAK-FAs…and when someone comes knocking telling you some reality and why you’r talking about nonsense…you instantly resort to ”well Albania bla bla bla”…its like a knee-jerk reaction.

Nice try trying to wriggle out of it but no dice. If the deal was made in 1996, then why were you still believing in it in 2004? If nothing happens in 8 years, a semi-intelligent person would realize that it was not true.

Once more…you must have problem comprehending english or something…I said the deal was CANCELED in 2001…and this wasn’t reported in public.

Like your claim that a Type-59 is superior to an M-84 in mountainous terrain?

Well this has more to do with your understanding than with what I said. What I said was…tanks won’t do well in a mountnous terrain like that…where the engagement distances are so short…a Type-59 would be capable of taking on even an M-84 at such distances…because besides about 1/3 of the front profile…the rest of the tank is penetrabale even by the 100mm.

You can’t seem to comprehend this…so you assume I said “type-59 is superior to M-84”.

Where are Albanian Leo 2’s?

When did I say we were getting these?? I said its an OPTION if we could get the same deal Poland got on them.

Do you understand english…or is your understanding so limited you only get about half of what I say and then make up the other half??

Serbia was in A WAR during those years. Generally a country’s defense expenditures during a war are higher than normal. That’s why throughout the entire 90’s Serbia spent a high percentage of GDP on its military. What is unusual about that?

Serbia was in a war?? With who?? The Ottoman Empire??

No it wasn’t, it was from your imagination

LOL…Vojska stopped publishing in September 2005…

BS. First of all, by the mid 90’s there were ONLY TWO people in all of Albania qualified to fly the F-7. The majority of pilots didn’t fly jets at all. Maybe Albania’s “top gun” got 20 hours a year but it certainly wasn’t the average for the entire airforce.

First of all…and I know you’r just throwing around things you’v heard other people here saying without you actually knowing if they’r true or not…you just throw them around…J-7s havn’t flown since the mid-90s…and J-7 wasn’t our only type. There were also the J-6s, J-5s and so forth.

WHAT…exactly…leads you to assume when I said they get 20-30 hours…that I was talking about J-7s?? Or its just an assumption of yours??

Who told you the “majority of pilots didn’t fly jets at all”?? And who flew the about 30 or so jets that were still in active service up to a few months ago??

The average?? No the avergae would be higher becsue in that 10 hours fo rthe Serbian AF they included helicopter and transport pilots as well…while if I included helicopter pilots for Albania it would be higher since they fly up to NATO standarts…

If you can’t differentiate between gallons and tons then why should I waste my time with you?

LOL…right ok ok…never mind…that was a misunderstanding on my part…which led tome to think it was quite amuzing you were saying 500 gallons.

Reagrdless…what I said still stands…you’d have to know what the previous year’s fuel consumption was…to compare it to this years…to tell us if htis is a “gigantic” increase of 10-12 times flight hours (One more thing…is there even a single aircraft in Serbia that can HANDLE 150 hours of flight a year without falling appart???)

The difference Kapedani is that you make up things as you go along while I and most other people here get our information from official sources. Maybe if you didn’t invent things you might get taken more seriously.

This is priceless GOLD comping from Slobo…

Ever said anything nice about Serbia? Not just on this board but at any time in your life?

Yes…it was nice when we no longer shared a border…

Frankly Kapedani, you’re just a little too determined to paint a pessemistic picture of everything Serbian and it brings into question every single thing you say. If you made any attempt to be a little bit more objective then your points might carry some more weight.

You people are here talking about Su-30s and PAK-FAs…and you’r criticizing me for the way I’m painting the situation.

Thats rich…

Previous defense budgets are not the topic of discussion. Besides, the high expenditure on defense was mostly to do with the fact that during the years 1991-95 and 1998-99 Serbia was in a much less stabe security environment (and also had a much smaller budget due to sanctions and corruption). Also you will notice that since 2004 the budget has been very significantly reduced – this fits perfectly with past announcements of ministers of defense and with a steady policy of downsizing*. In any case – the past is not very relevant for this discussion.

Same as what I said…

Is that information just imagined or do you actually have any real sources? Check out the defense white paper.

You just said it above…I clearly said…as a GDP PERCENTAGE it is being reduced.

Yea yea, you’re bringing Albania into this because of Slobo – whatever. We all know you can’t wait to compare the two countries… Its your favourite thing to do.

Well if he’s going to be throwing things around that make no sense…I might as well explain things to him.

You’ll notice that the 548 million dollars spent on Salaries and Regular Activities amounts to approximately 75% of the budget total – leaving approx 25% for equipping, construction and research.

Hmm…25% for “equipping, construction and research”…I hope you realise that is VERY different from what I said above it…

25-35% for maintanance, infrastructure and such, and about 25% for equipment purchases

As I said the brakdown provided in your list is too vague to make anything out of it…

And if you think I’m painitng a too dark image of the Serbian Armed forces (in opposition to you PAK-FA and Su-30 proposals which are all too understanbale of course 😉 )….you forgot to reply to my point on how the 10 million euros for the MiG-29 refurbishment were gotten…if the budget for “equipping” is so high and big as you suggest (which your figures suggest NOTHING of the sort…and the budget for ACTUAL new procurment of new equipment is something like 10% of that)…I’d think finding 10 millions for 5 MiG-29s after several years…wouldn’t be much of a problem…and wouldn’t require that army property be sold off and money be set aside from them for just this purpose.

You forgot to reply to that one…

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I’m not here to paint a dark picture of Serbian Army…they do a good enough job of that themselves. I’m here to hopefully put an end to the very ridiculous and crazy discussions that ALWAYS go on when Serbs talk about their army. Su-30s and PAK-FAs?? What the hell are you thinking?? And it snot here and isolated…this seems to be going on everywhere. its very amuzing…I’m just a bit concerned.