TOMCAT TERRITORYWas the F-15 the best choice for Japan?
Short answer – no.
TOMCAT TERRITORYThat better kill ratio was only if the F-14 was allowed to use the AIM-54 at ranges greater than the Sparrow was capable of.
In a pure Sparrow/Sidewinder/gun fight the Eagle won most of the time – as did the F-16 & F/A-18.
The F-14 had the same multi-shot Sparrow capability as the F-15.
Errrm are you saying that a USAF F-14 would not have Phoenix capability because you simply cannot ignore that part of the F-14’s arsenal as you are doing. A better kill ratio is a better kill ratio full stop. The same applies for the multi shot capability, the F-14 had it from the start the F-15 didn’t. In addition the Sparrow was shown to have a slightly better range with the F-14’s more powerful radar than the Eagle. Also note the AIM-54 is not purely a long range missile but could be used at medium and shorter ranges as well.
In the WVR arena the Eagle did not win ‘most’ of the time. I’ve interviewed too many Falcon, Eagle and Tomcat drivers to know that in most cases it came down more to the pilot’s skill than the jet they were flying. The F-14B/D in particular gave more than a few drivers in other machines something to think about.
I’m not saying the Tomcat was better than the Eagle or vice versa but that both jets had significant strengths as well as some weaknesses that if the pilot knew how to use to his advantage could make them work to turn the situation in his favour. A USAF equipped with Tomcat’s over Eagles would not be any weaker than a USAF with Eagles.
Y-20 is correct that Turkey did do well in the Iran-Iraq war.
TOMCAT TERRITORYThe F-14 could most certainly have been used instead of the F-15 by the USAF. There was alot of pressure from the US Navy at one stage for the USAF to accept the F-14 over the F-15 but as you say the Air Force was opposed to the idea of another Navy fighter at all costs no matter what the capability. Yes the F-14 was an interceptor but was also designed as an air superiority fighter. Maintenance was not much different from the F-15A which was also a maintenance pig. With Air Force support an F-14D type variant would have been in service much sooner. Remember the F-14D and the F-14A has shown that it is no slouch in the WVR arena against Eagles and Falcons. What’s more the savings from developing one aircraft program instead of both the Eagle and Tomcat would of left plenty of dollars for further development of both the F-14 and F-16. ACEVAL/AIMVAL proved the F-14 had an almost 50% better kill ratio than the F-15. Also note it was not until the USAF got AMRAAM missiles that their F-15’s got a multi-shot BVR capability something that the F-14 had with Phoenix from the 70’s. If the F-14 were in place of the F-15 in every single campaign the USAF has been in since it entered service would the outcome and results have been any different? I think not. The mock-up you have pictured is for the F-106 replacement which General Daniel James recommended the USAF purchase. An F-14 in the F-15 type role would not have had those conformal tanks under the belly that were proposed for the IMI program. In the end the opposition to any Navy fighter from the Air Force won out over everything else.
TOMCAT TERRITORYPeter the Great is fine looking ship.
TOMCAT TERRITORYThe A/C Pack exhaust air is ducted into the pressurized fuselage, where it is mixed with filtered air from the recirculation fans, and fed into the “mix manifold”.
The airflow is approximately 50% “outside air” and 50% filtered air.
Modern planes use “High Efficiency Particulate Arresting”, which trap >99% of all bacteria and clustered viruses.Air from the “mix manifold” is directed to overhead distribution nozzles in the various “zones” of the aircraft. Temperature in each zone may be adjusted by adding small amounts of “Trim Air”, which is low-pressure, high temperature air tapped.
Air is also supplied to individual gaspers (outlet nozzles) over each seat, which may be adjusted individually. Some aircraft allow gasper supply to be turned on or off from the flight deck.
I tend to read more than post but this reply left me rolling on the floor. Seriously that system described has more to do with a modern jetliner ala 737 and nothing to do with a SHornet.
TOMCAT TERRITORYA claim out of the blue to stay polite, when at least the USN thinks otherwise about that since the 90s. Even within the USN the fraction in support of the F-14D was limited
Actually Sens, Amiga and Madrat are quite right in what they have said and no the USN actually preferred to stay with the F-14 all the way up to Secretary of the Navy. Remember the USN didn’t even want the original Hornet either. Politically the Super Hornet enjoyed political support never seen before, particularly by Dick Cheney and the USN was made to tow the line no matter what.
TOMCAT TERRITORYhttp://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=1947&page=497
Some recent pictures of various IRIAF aircraft.
TOMCAT TERRITORYWhen one looks at the F-14 there were alot of missed opportunities. First you have to realise that the USN really did want the Super Tomcat 21, in fact the USN didn’t even want the original Hornet in the first place. Secretary Cheney cancelled the entire F-14 program and basically the Navy was told you are getting the Super Hornet or you get nothing. This combined with many senior pro F-14 sailors being demoted or forced to retire after the 91′ Tailhook scandal led to the Hornet mafia taking over and thus allowed the less logical aircraft to triumph. It became a career ender to buck the trend and support a new Tomcat.
With regards to what Amiga says, I agree with most of it. An F-14 given the same amount of engineering effort that was put into the Super Hornet would have resulted in a better aircraft. For instance it just doesn’t make sense to me to re-design a machine to allow it to carry more fuel and sensors when you already have a design that already has the correct size to begin with. Many people talk about the F-14’s maintenance issues. However everyone quickly forgets that the F-15 was designed and built in the same timeframe with the same technology and it performs very well today because it has a full spares supply and support from the OEM. The F-14D had figures of 18 man hours per flight hour for the first few years of service. But once spares were stopped being produced and the aircraft basically ignored those figures went up.
Perportedly the aircraft was ignored on purpose by the higher ups in order to ensure there was no further debate from Congress about the viabilty of the Super Hornet. Even getting LANTIRN onto the jet had to be done through back channels and it made the aircraft a better striker than the F-15E in certain aspects. Mark my words the legacy Hornets maintenace figures are nothing to brag about anymore and the Super Hornet figures are going up as well.
As for an advanced Tomcat there was never any intention to remove the swing wings and in fact in service the F-14’s wings never needed much maintenance to begin with. Regarding the location of LANTIRN, Grumman had already done work to fit a Navigation and Targeting pod on the jet. One each in the forward part of the Phoenix rail which wouldn’t have effected weapons carriage. What’s more there were also plans to fit 2 AIM-9 AND 2 AIM-120’s per glove pylon. I’ve seen the test pics. And yes the F-14 never carried AIM-120 operationally but the machine was designed to accept the missile but integration funding was used for LANTIRN. The replacement for the Phoenix missile, ie: the AIM-152 was also AMRAAM sized and thus the Advanced Tomcat could perform the long range mission without the greater weight of Phoenix missiles.
I had a recent chat with an ex-VF-103 Tomcat driver who now flys Super Hornets. He says that most guys won’t tell you the Tomcat was better simply because it’s not coming back and it’s not healthy careerwise to publicly say anything against the Super Hornet. So I still asked him which one he felt was better and he gave me the politically correct answer of the Super Hornet does what it’s supposed to do. He then paused and then added that if it were up to him he’d rather be flying an updated Tomcat with new avionics than a warmed over Hornet.
That my friend says alot.
TOMCAT TERRITORYNice looking ship!
Pity though that until the F-35 arrives her airwing won’t really be worth it’s salt.
TOMCAT TERRITORYLOL
The F-15’s maintenance record wasn’t much different from the Tomcat’s. Especially in the early days. Too much is made of the F-14’s maintenance when it’s pretty much comparable to all 70’s jets.
What structural weakness exactly are you talking about??? Tomcat’s were some of the strongest jets on the carrier, much more hardy than SHornets.
TOMCAT TERRITORYThe F-14 was definetely not a dog in the WVR regime. In fact once the F-14B/D arrived with F110 giving it a thrust to weight ratio of 1:1 the aircraft was more than a match for the Eagle.
Not sure about people laughing at the Sunset Ceremony. I’ve asked a few ex Tomcat drivers who were there and all of them said that never happened.
Also note the Tomcat also achieved 9G turning but was limited for extended service life.
TOMCAT TERRITORYF-14’s always got shafted by politcians and neglected by the navy
TOMCAT TERRITORYI think the Navy got caught up in the whole lets get stealth issue (A-12) and in the end basically put their primary supplier of aircraft (Grumman) out of business. This combined with McDD’s political favour (Dick Cheney) and fallout from the tailhook debacle left the USN with no other option but the Super Hornet. It was really mis-management that put them in the position, while not a bad one, that they are in now. Thats military procurment for you.
TOMCAT TERRITORYNow that is a seriously mean looking chopper!
TOMCAT TERRITORYMarines are not getting EA-18G’s.
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