If true [there have been so many rumours/reports, so I’ll wait till it gets clearer], it’s good news for Dassault, but it somehow is also bad news. Wouldn’t this [that the Saudis are financing it] mean that a Saudi Rafale deal is totally off the table? :confused: 😮 😉
the planned 620 EFs comming of the line around 2015 (?).
Afaik longer than 2015. There are about 610 [including Austrian and Saudi Typhoons] still to be delivered. At a full rate production rate of perhaps 50-60 a year that would mean the line will close in late 2016 to late 2018. And that doesn’t even include further export victories. Though I’m not too sure about the production rate, does anyone have information on that?
You’re right. We should have let Germany keep Austria at the end of WWII :rolleyes:
You do know that Austria was overwhelmingly in favour of being part of Germany at the end of WWI? If the principle of sovereign people deciding for themselves had applied to them too [and not only mainly to the victors of WWI] Austria would have become part of Germany in 1918/1919. The injustice [for which the French are mainly to blame] of the Versailles Treaty [it was viewed by all German parties at the time as a catastrophe for Germany] is partly responsible for Hitler’s rise in Germany [other things being responsible are: The then ridiculous German democratic system [no 5% clause among many other things]; the terrible lies and propaganda against the democratic parties in Germany [“Dolchstoßlegende”]; the economic crisis of 1929; the stupidity of some in the German high society [e.g. Von Papen]; the very undemocratic education of the Kaiserreich; some democratic parties letting themselves be intimidated etc…] If you haven’t guessed by now, history is sort of one of my hobbies. 😀 Though I don’t know what it’s got to do with Austria and Typhoons. :confused: So I have no point to make in this post regarding the topic, I’m just a bit of a history nerd. 😀 I also think that Austria probably wouldn’t want to become part of Germany nowadays, just another reason for them to guard their sovereignty with German assembled Typhoons. :diablo:
As of yet none have been delivered but at least one is flying now.
Are you sure? I hope you are. 😀
the swedish Minister visit a Saab factory in sweden, and would claim Rafale superiority, there? lol, you are as DID, far to understand how politics words works!
He didn’t announce that Rafale was “superior” he announced that Rafale is out of the contest. This was apparently confirmed by the Deputy Defence Minister to a leading Norwegian newspaper.
Claiming the rafale is out of the contest when there aren’t any contest, when a guy visit a gripen factory is as childish as claiming DID is such a seriousness contender for world aerospace journalism!
Three consortia making several bids and increasing their offset offers over a considerable number of years is no contest? You’re funny. I wonder when you’ll wake up.
It seems Eurofighter GmbH is offering work worth 5 billion Euros to Norwegian industry, that is afaik much more than Lockheed and quite a bit more than Gripen International.
Here’s a link in Norwegian:
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article342959.ece
4 in final assembly now but the question is will the programme survive socialist folly.
Typhoon looks great. 😀 Head ons are great and its got a great backside. Imo Rafale looks good head on but from the side it looks crap.
Typhoon looking good:
Rafale sideview:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/aeromil-yf/BA106_rafale_304.jpg
Here’s a picture:

Yep, good news. The last figure they gave [on 24/07/2006] was 84. The specific figures were:
– Germany: 23
– Spain: 14
– Italy: 16
– United Kingdom: 31
So now the specific figures should be something like this:
– Germany: 27
– Spain: 17
– Italy: 19
– United Kingdom: 37
Most of the tested stuff is for CSAR-X but obviously could come into later EH101s. I also would like to see a larger UK buy of EH101s. For MASC they’d need about 12 [let’s face it an AEW EH101 is the cheapest and most likely solution] and for the Army lift requirement another 40 EH101 with the enhanced cockpit, rotorblades and engines [does R-R have stronger EH101 engines?] would be very nice.
Bad news. 🙁 But Flight International is reporting that EADS is working on an all new design 5000kg UAV.
Where do they plan to develop it?? China??
Why? Neuron has a budget of ca. 277 million pounds. The British effort has a budget of more than 200 million pounds and BAE has already spent 100 million pounds in the last few years. That investment derisked the demonstrator, so some work has already been done. For comparison: The X45A programme cost ca. 71 million pounds. The X47B apparently cost ca. 87 million pounds. X45C cost ca. 416 million pounds.
Great news! According to this article the funding is over 200 million pounds!!! 🙂 😀 😎
SUAV(E) Could Have Big Impact on U.K. UAVs
By ANDREW CHUTER, LONDON
September 20, 2006
A team of top British companies and universities is nearing an agreement with the Ministry of Defence that could significantly improve unmanned air vehicle (UAV) and unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) capabilities here.
One government source said that more than 200 million pounds ($376 million) could be poured into the technology demonstrator program over the next few years. Britain wants a better understanding of key technologies and operational capabilities as part of its Strategic Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (Experimental), or SUAV(E), program — an effort to look at UCAV technology, cost-effectiveness and interoperability in various long-range roles.
Building a strategic UAV is likely to be the largest technology demonstrator program launched by the British since the Experimental Aircraft Programme (EAP) was agreed by government and industry in 1982.
EAP led to the launch of the Eurofighter Typhoon program and helped save Britain from slipping out of the combat aircraft sector. The SUAV(E) initiative could have a similar impact.
Andy Wilson, BAE Systems director of sales and marketing for military autonomous systems, said the hope is that the UAV demonstrator could be the precursor to a full production program in Britain.
Mike Turner, chief executive of BAE, which leads the industry UAV effort, said it was a “very important development for the future of the U.K. defense industrial base.”BAE is in talks with the government regarding the future consolidation of the military aircraft sector here. As the Defence Industrial Strategy document published by the MoD late last year made clear, the current size of the industry is unsustainable, and development of UAV and UCAV know-how has an important role in retaining jobs and capabilities in the sector.
Turner said the UAV demonstrator talks with government were nearing the end during a meeting with journalists Sept. 13 following release of BAE’s interim financial results ending in June.
“I think we will see a very large technology demonstrator program in the not-too-distant future,” he said.
An industry source said that while some minor points still needed resolution, he would be disappointed if the deal wasn’t announced by the end of the year.
The British effort will be in the form of an MoD-sponsored partnership, with the government providing the major part of the funding and industry providing the rest, Wilson said.
Industry Teams With Academia
The industry-academic team undertaking the work with the MoD will include QinetiQ, Rolls-Royce, Smiths Aerospace, two leading universities and a string of small and medium-sized companies drawn from across Britain, Wilson said.
The British effort will be aimed at offering an independent capability free of the technology-transfer problems that have dogged the proposed Joint Strike Fighter deal with the United States.
“We are very keen on UAVs to go it alone,” Turner said. “We want to be able to offer the vehicles to the U.K. armed forces subject to U.K. technology only. We have been very deliberate in that policy. A lot of it is U.K.-eyes-only. Whether in due course the government — having gotten the technology under its belt — decides to go out to Europe or America [for joint programs], we will have to wait and see.”
Earlier this year Nigel Whitehead, BAE’s air systems group managing director, told journalists that although countries in Europe continued to focus on their own national requirements, there could come a time when common programs emerge.
Whitehead said BAE was already sharing data with Eurofighter consortium partners EADS Military Aircraft of Germany and Alenia of Italy. Both companies have jet-powered UAV programs of their own.
Europe’s major effort in the sector to date is the Dassault Aviation-led Neuron demonstrator. France, Greece, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland are cooperating to build a technology demonstrator.
BAE already has spent about 100 million pounds of its own resources secretly developing a string of UAVs at its aerospace facilities in northwest England in recent years, and Turner said he was “keen to put some of our own money” into this latest program.
BAE took the wraps off the vehicles earlier this year after the government revealed the existence of the work in its Defence Industrial Strategy white paper. The document revealed the government was in talks about the technology demonstrator program.
BAE’s work on low-observable platforms, such as the flying wing-configured Corax, Raven and others, has already helped reduce the risk on the demonstrator program.
Wilson said that once the funds are released, the demonstrator will be constructed as fast as possible using the rapid prototyping and build techniques developed for the production of Raven. The white paper reported that Raven went from concept to first flight in 10 months.
In July, the government and industry announced they were launching a jointly funded 32 million pound Autonomous Systems Technology Related Airborne Evaluation and Assessment program. That work aims to develop technologies allowing safe operation of UAVs in civil airspace.
Revenues Up
BAE’s figures for the half year saw revenue rise to 8.2 billion pounds from 6.7 billion pounds last year, with operating profit rising from 566 million pounds to 788 million pounds. The results reflect the boost in trading from the June 2005 acquisition of United Defense Industries.
Turner said company performance in the United States had been excellent, with the expansion in the market in recent years now bearing fruit.
“We were very fortunate. We came to the market late, starting with only about $1 [billion] or $2 billion turnover seven years ago,” Turner said. “We were able to choose the parts of the market impacted by transformation and modernization in concert with the way forward for the armed forces, so we are in the key sweet spots. We are confident we can keep growing 5-6 percent ahead of the U.S. [defense] budget.”
Turner said Pentagon budgets are unlikely to continue at current high levels indefinitely. “The rises will not continue at the 7-8 percent level we have seen in the past, but probably slow down to the 3-4 percent level,” he said.
Well the second engine is good news for Britain, I’m pretty sure all UK F35 will end up having the F136 [Rolls-Royce is perhaps the best MoD lobby group]. Concerning the number reductions that is just dumb and it will further irritate international partners which if the F35 gets into more trouble might have an even stronger case for leaving and buying Typhoon or other aircraft. It’s quite funny actually, any F35 problems are bad for the UK [higher costs] but also good [better chances for Typhoon and Gripen].