Yes they would be of interest – coloUr photography was expensive back in the 1960s, so not many amateurs used it on planes.Also as long standing museum exhibits – many of us here have seen these individual airframes many times in our lives .

I’ve just managed to locate my photo album with these photos from the 1968 BoB Week – all I’ve got to do is scan them in / clean up a little and hopefully share them on the Forum as soon as I can.

As you say, colour photography in those days did prove expensive and that’s one reason I took shots largely in b&w with a selected few in colour.

Hope you’ll bear with me for short while until I can post pics.

Cheers

Richard

Cant remember, and dont wish to speculate who it was, but it was an ex lanc pilot, who got a bit carried away while ground running her, fast taxied her and it would seem lifted her off the run way for a bit, and landed somewhat roughly. Surely somebody must have details? Obviously this would be pre 1974. ………………………..

I’d dearly love to know where these stories of “unauthorised flights” come from in respect of NX611 !!!

Having been personally involved with NX611 (aircraft named “Guy Gibson” in those days) throughout most of the time she was maintained in an airworthy condition (mid 1965 to her final flight to Squires Gate, Blackpool on 26th June 1970) I know of no instance when this could have taken place !!

The only “famous” (or “infamous”) incident that I can recall occured in 1969, when NX611 (Coded ‘HA-P’ at the time) was based on Lavenham Airfield in Suffolk. On 19th April 1969 the Reflectaire ‘Museum’ hosted a private family visit by the legendary Leonard Cheshire VC and his wife ‘Sue’ Ryder.

In honour of this visit it was decided to do a full engine run and the guests were invited to be on board the aircraft. With all 4-engines running smoothly the lancaster performed a full power ‘run’ whilst securely ‘chocked’ on the main concrete dispersal area to the east of the control tower.

Being personally on the dispersal area supervising the ‘run’ (and taking 8mm cine film of the occasion for a record) I was surprised when it was decided onboard to remove the chocks to the main wheels. Even more of a surprise came as NX611 began to edge forward on the dispersal area and seated at the controls, in the left hand seat, was none other than Leonard Cheshire !!

The engines continued to operate smoothly and the throttles began to ‘blip’ as the aircraft edged forward and swung to the right on to the perimeter track. All the assembled cars belonging to visitors and Reflectaire volunteer workers were suddenly seen to hastily manoevre out of the way of the lanc as she headed eastwards along the peri-track.

As the aircraft approached the left-hand bend of the peri-track there was an audible cry of disbelief as NX611 suddenly lurched to port as her main port undercarriage wheel slewed into the ploughed earth of the farmer’s field !!

She was well and truly stuck and no matter how much power was applied to the 2 port engines she refused to budge. With all 4 engines shut down she looked a sorrowful sight and naturally there was considerable concern amongst the onlookers as they rushed to the scene.

As there was no way of extracating NX611 from the field under her own power it was decided to utilise the pulling power of the ‘museum’s’ White ‘Half Track’ vehicle which was luckily available and fuelled. As the lanc’s tow-bar was hitched to the tailwheel the other end was attached to the ‘Half Track’. At this point Leonard Cheshire appeared from the rear of the aircraft looking extremely concerned that he may have damaged the aircraft and headed at speed towards the port undercarriage to see if he could help.

After some 5 or so minutes the ‘Half track’ managed to gradually pull NX611 clear of the field and, much to the relief of everybody – especially Leonard Cheshire – re-positioned once more on the dispersal area.

This incident must have really shaken Leonard Cheshire as he marked ‘the occasion’ by entering the following in the aircraft’s Log Book :

“ALL 4 ENGINES RUN – ALL FUNCTIONING OK – EDGE OF RUNWAY SOFT” (!)

Signed Leonard Cheshire

It has always been the subject of some amusement and conjecture over the years that followed this incident that “If the aircraft hadn’t enbedded its port undercarriage wheel in the soft earth of the field – WE WONDER IF LEONARD CHESHIRE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SLIGHTLY TEMPTED TO ‘OPEN UP’ THE THROTTLES AND HEAD FOR THE OPEN RUNWAY!!!”

Doubless nobody will ever know the answer to that piece of conjecture – but to mark the ocassion the ‘HA-P‘ code letters on the side of NX611 were quickly replaced by ‘GL-C‘ (‘Geoffrey’ Leonard Cheshire). As you can imagine – there was subsequently many a frivolous remark by certain visitors to the ‘museum’ – “WHY HAVE YOU PUT THE ABBREVIATION LETTERS FOR THE [B]GREATER LONDON COUNCIL ON THE SIDES OF THE LANC[/B] !!! (Those old enough will remember !!)

As I mentioned, I did take some cine film of this engine run but as yet haven’t had it digitally enhanced to CD / DVD – but here’s one still frame I managed to scan in. It’s not great but it shows what I have described above I hope (Leonard Cheshire is centre of picture).

This ‘Cheshire’ event was mentioned in the text of the 1974 “Story of a Lanc” publication which I helped produce with Brian Goulding & Mike Garbett (of ‘Lancaster at War’ publication fame) and the then Sqdn. Ldr. John Partridge (RAF Scampton) and I can only think that this has possibly been the source of the ‘unauthorised take-off’ rumour which unfortunately seems to have falsely passed into the historic record of NX611 (at least on this Forum anyway).

Hope this has helped to possibly scotch this unsubstantiated ‘rumour’ !

Richard (aka “Dick” Taylor in those days!!!)

many thanks for the responses,i have alot of respect for a man who managed to initially save NX611 and have her flown fourteen times during his ownership,(getting sponsorship along the way,not easy at any time) it was very disappointing the lavenham museum couldnt come to fruition leaving the squires gate option as the only viable alternative,what happened up there with blackpool corporation(i gather they doubled his rental agreement ) was appaling leaving john roast no other choice than to auction off the reflectair collection rather than have blackpool take over the collection (with the prospect of every tom dick and harriet clambering all over the aircraft willy nilly) it was quite a coup on johns part, NX611 is the luckiest lancaster having survived standing for years outside scampton exposed to the elements. had the lavenham project be successful she,d have remained airworthy probably till today without the need of a respar which is understandable as there was some minimal corrosion found when the RAF dismantled her at squires gate, im digressing from my main aim which is to find john roast, if he has indeed passed away then im sure he will be looking down on NX611 willing her back into the sky, people like Mr Roast are thin on the ground for without dedicated individuals like him the classic aircraft movement would be extinct.:cool: 😎 😎

I can confirm that John Roast has indeed passed away.

‘Victor45’ – I have read your comments regarding John Roast and am interested to know whether you were personally involved with HAPS (Historic Aircraft Preservation Society) or Reflectaire Ltd during the time that NX611 was in airworthy condition. From your comments it would appear you have a very high regard for John so I’m wondering what your involvement may have been, especially as you are trying to find out what happened to him.

As I was personally involved with NX611 during the time when NX611 was being maintained in flying condition during the late 1960s / early 1970s, from her time at Biggin Hill through to her final static ‘display’ at Squires Gate Airport Blackpool I have many wonderful memories of those early days.

I was originally a member of HAPS and became so passionate about Lancaster NX611/G-ASXX (“Guy Gibson” – as she was named in those days) that I gave up my full time Civil Service job in early 1969 to become one of the full-time members of staff of Reflectaire Ltd (John Roast was one of the directors, alongside his (then) wife Joan, and a couple of others) and as such I have quite a personal insight into the trials and tribulations that were experienced throughout those years, both from certain areas of officialdom and from unfortunate personality clashes (I’m being very discreet here!!! I’m sure many Forum readers – including Roger Smith who’s already contributed to this thread – will have a very good idea of what I’m eluding to if they were around the active aviation preservation scene at that time !).

The fact that NX611 made a total of 14 flights after arriving back in the UK in 1965, the first being a successful airtest from Biggin Hill on 6th May 1967 and her last (to date anyway!) being from RAF Hullavington to Blackpool Airport on 26th June 1970, is certainly testament to all the hard work and dedication of the small band of aviation enthusiasts within HAPS and those who subsequently diverted their efforts towards ensuring that the Reflectaire “dream” of setting up a Historic Aircraft Museum was in fact “got off the ground” so to speak. Most people know the (‘published’ version!) of what subsequently happened to prevent that ‘dream’ from ultimately coming true, with the Lancaster. Seafire, Sabre jet etc. languishing on the airport’s perimeter compound at Squires Gate with little protection from the elements or the ‘sticky fingers’ brigade, but I wonder if they realise just how much NX611’s current existence is largely owed to the unswerving dedication of those youngsters of the local ‘Air Training Corp’ squadrons (Blackpool & St. Annes ) and ‘Girl’s Venture Corp’ who volunteered to assist us (the small compliment of Reflectaire staff) in ‘manning’ the aircraft and military vehicles etc. on static display to the public. That band of volunteers, together with all those members of the HAPS/Reflectaire Preservation Groups who actively gave of their time and effort in the seemingly impossible task of ensuring the survival of these historic items of Britain’s heritage, have never really received the recognition that they undoubtedly deserve.

I recognise that John Roast was indeed a ‘driving force’ in the attempt to ensure the Lancaster’s survival but he was far from being alone in that respect. As history (and hindsight) has probably shown – the way things were done in those heady days could probably have been done somewhat differently and personal aspirations of certain individuals would have benefitted from a more cohesive ‘team’ spirit than was often the case – I’m sorry to say.

I, like many others I’ve spoken to over the years, have to agree that the actions of the then Blackpool Corporation officials – in their decision to impose a crippling increase in the cost of the lease of the ground and buildings on the airport site that Reflectaire occupied for its proposed museum proved to be a final nail in the proverbial coffin. There was simply no way that sufficient funds could be found to cover the lease and to continue to maintain the exhibits for public display. The rest is history !!

There’s been many a Forum thread on the subject of whether NX611 ‘Just Jane’ should ever return to the skies. As someone who was extremely fortunate to have had the chance to fly as a passenger in this ‘iconic lady’ (I was on the flight of NX611 from Biggin Hill to Lavenham (Suffolk) on 30th March 1969, piloted by that equally iconic pilot – Neil Williams) I have very mixed emotions on this subject. Yes, my first reaction was to say I’d love to see (and hear) that wonderful aircraft take to the skies again where many say she naturally belongs – BUT….. I must say I’ve agonised over this for some time and after hearing both sides’ comments, both for and against, I really do feel that ‘Just Jane’ is simply too valuable a piece of British aviation history for the Panton Brothers to risk the possibility of her suffering irreparable damage should the ‘unthinkable’ ever happen if she were to be made fully airworthy once more. As others have already said – without the LAHC’s ‘main attraction’ would the present museum continue to be the successful public venue that it undoubtedly is today. With the recently introduced ‘tail-up’ taxy runs that the LAHC has thrilled the public with over the past months I am convinced that they, the Pantons, have now got it ‘just right’ and this wonderful ‘old girl’ should not be exposed to any greater risk of potential damage by any endeavour to widen her horizons – so to speak.

Despite all these considerations – Should the unthinkable ever happen to ‘PA474’ in the future then I’m sure the Panton Bros. would think long and hard and …. who knows!!!! NEVER SAY NEVER !!! That was the ‘motto’ we adopted when NX611 first returned to the skies in 1967 and I’m sure the surviving members of 617 Squadron who attended RAF Scampton on 19th/20th May 1967, on the occasion of the anniversary of the ‘Dambusters Raid’, were greatful for that.

That’s enough of my memories for now – I’d still like to know if you were around in those days ‘victor45’ – do please let me know whether your ‘real’ name rings any bells from the past. I know Roger (RPSmith) was around – we’ve spoken fairly recently when I was arranging the HAPS / Reflectaire reunion at East Kirkby in 2005.

Septic, your picture must be older than you think, 607 has been on the other side of the airfield for a long time now (over a year, I think), and I believe that corrosion is now getting a strong grip on her. There was a thread on her condition by those best placed to know on PPrune quite a while ago.

Thought I’d post a recent couple of shots of 607, taken from the main A15 road, looking westward, on 18th February 2007, showing her in her current position almost opposite the public viewing area (closed at the time!).

Difficult to say what her condition is from that distance, especially when backlit with the sun down quite low in the sky.

Certainly Squires Gate , I used to be a volunteer air cadet showing people around NX611 at the time. On the final flight some of the exhaust stubs fell off during a low pass over a Welsh reservoir.

Am I right in thinking I’m “speaking” to Gary Brindle of Aerial Photography renown ?

We must have met at some point in 1970-72 whilst I was working for Reflectaire at Squires Gate Airport. Any photos of that time you could share with us?

Were you with the 2486 Sqdn. ATC (Lytham St. Annes) when you helped out with the visitors at the Reflectaire Museum site at Squires Gate?

You mentioned the fact that we lost a few exhaust stubs on the way up from Hullavington to Blackpool on 26-6-1970 – yes indeed we did and the Welsh lake over which NX611 made its low pass was Bala Lake on the northeastern edge of the Snowdonia National Park.

I was aboard the chase-plane which followed the Lanc on its journey and I was trying to take some aerial cine film (8mm) as she flew alongside and below us. There was quite a bit of turbulance en route at various times and the pilot of the Cherokee (G-AWCY) had a bit of difficulty keeping a steady ‘platform’ for photography. I did manage to get a small amount of cine film of NX611 as she made her way across Wales and along the Fylde coastline but it’s not brilliant I’m afraid.

I’ve tried to extract a few frames from the film but haven’t got the equipment needed to enhance the images – still … it’s better than nothing I suppose !

Here’s a few shots of NX611 in flight on that trip, which sadly proved to be her last (as things currently stand anyway). The last shot was taken as we landed at Squires Gate in the Cherokee a few minutes after NX611 had taxied towards the airport terminal.

Enjoy, even if they’re not up to today’s standards they’re still part of the history of this beautiful aircraft.

The Lanc painted as NA-P is the Canada Aviation Museum’s KB944. So not at Middleton St George, I’m afraid

Thanks for that info. Eddie.

It goes to show – it makes it very difficult to identify an aircraft simply by reference to the code letters applied !! :confused: (Similarly ‘HA-P’ applied to both NX611 and LM257 at different times – as in my previous posting on this thread).

I had no idea of when the photo of ‘NA-P’ was taken when viewing on this thread – I’ve since found the exact shot on the website for ‘The Canada Aviation Museum’, thanks to your contribution – I’m grateful.

http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/collections/artifacts/aircraft/AvroLancasterX.shtml

Cheers, once again 😉

Richard

LANC. ‘NA-P’

the Photo of NA-P looks like NX611 (?) but excellent pics all the same

Hi ‘topgun regect’,

Just a brief comment re the photo of Lancaster ‘NA-P’ :

“Just Jane” (NX611) is a Mk. VII and she carried the Code ‘HA-P’ (originally used by a Lancaster of 218 “Gold Coast” Squadron (LM257) in 1944) during her time with the ‘Historic Aircraft Preservation Society’ / Reflectaire Limited (Code ‘HA-P’ between 1967 and Autumn 1969 – See Attachment)

From my records – ‘NA-P’ was used by Lancaster B.10 – ‘KB760’ of 428 Sqdn. RCAF during its service in the UK at Middleton St. George (d/d from Canada July 1944 – ceased ops April 1945 – returned to Canada June 1945 and finally scrapped January 1947.

It would be interesting to know if the photo on this thread was taken at Middleton St. George – Anyone know ???

NOW RETURNING TO THE THEME OF THIS THREAD –

I’ve recently got back from East Kirkby, Lincs. after celebrating the “60th Anniversary” (combined with the HAPS / Reflectaire 40th Anniversary Reunion) of NX611, having personally been very closely associated with this beautiful aircraft during the 1960s/1970s.

THE BBMF Lancaster ‘PA474’ has, on a number of occasions, paid fitting tribute to its ‘sister’ aircraft ‘NX611’ by performing ‘flypasts’ over East Kirkby, and earlier, during its ‘gate guardian’ posting to RAF Scampton.

It is only fitting that I attempt to reflect my own, very personal, admiration of the role that ‘PA474’ continues to play in keeping the modern generation aware of the sacrifices made by the crews of Bomber Command.

I WISH YOU A VERY HAPPY 60TH BIRTHDAY ‘OLD GIRL’ – LONG MAY YOU CONTINUE TO GRACE OUR SKIES.

Cheers 😉

Richard

Attachment shows NX611 (HA-P) at Lavenham Airfield, Suffolk on 17th May 1969

LANCASTER PHOTO

The Lancaster and the TBM were surely out of service with the RAF and RN by 1958. These have more of a 1954/56 look about them possibly from St Mawgan.

I suspect these images cover a period of mid to late 1950’s
Mark

Mark,

The Lanc. is certainly ‘SW283’ (H-Q) of 1.MRS (School of Maritime Reconnaissance – Formed June 1951 and disbanded September 1956) based at St. Mawgan. She was also with 210 Sqdn. as ‘OZ-L’.

Hope this is of help.

Just as an added point of interest, and confusion (!) I have two conflicting reports as to where, and by whom, this Lanc. was built. :confused:

One source states :

“Built by ‘Metropolitan Vickers’ at their Trafford Park, Manchester (Mosley Road Works).’Metropolitan-Vickers’ (or ‘Metrovick’) was a British heavy industrial firm previously known as ‘British Westinghouse’.

In 1938 ‘Metrovick’ negotiated a contract with A.V. Roe to build the Avro Manchester under license. Metrovick eventually supplied 1,000 of the Manchester’s offspring, the Avro Lancaster.”

The second source advises differently :

“Serial Batch : SW283-SW295
Part of the sixth production batch of 13 aircraft built by ‘Sir W.G. Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft Ltd.’ at Whitley, Coventry (Deliveries commenced 5/45; completed 6/45) ……”

CAN ANYONE SHED A DEFINITIVE LIGHT ON WHICH ACCOUNT IS CORRECT, PLEASE.

Cheers 😉

Richard