edisononeYeah, people do debate but…
King, I’d be extremely carefull if I were you :p . OC has
the power so to speak though he rarely makes use of it. So don’t
be too hard on him. He is after all a great guy. Honest.
.
edisononeSo what does it matter. If it’s not real then its not real
Yeah… BIG DEAL isn’t it :p ? I mean, it’s almost
as if someone had commited a crime here for clicking pics here
and for being an A/C enthusiats for Asian stuff…
But then edisonone has a point. It does start from
one’s imagination. How many Americans scientists and engineers were inspire
from watching science fiction on TV and the movies?
Thanks, friend! I needed that extra ammo :p . And, talking
about inspirations, here how I think it all began for the J-10 to clear the
air here over its Lavi connections for once and for all times:
My theory as to how it really came about:
They (Chinese) needed something sharp and they needed something
“first class” and, the handsome EF-2000, my opinion, were the thing that did
it for them. I mean if I were one of the designers at Chengdu, Xian, or wherever, I’d go after
the EF-2000 design (to replicate it) anytime over an F-16 clone (Lavi).
IMHO, the canards, plus the rectangular intakes; “minus
one engine for fuel econmy of course”; are the telltale signs that it’s the EF-
2000 — and not the Lavi — that had inspired the J-10.
“The Chinese population, including those in the field of aeronautics,
engineers designers and such, have ready access to western aviation
magazines such as AFM, Air International, Jane’s, etc., and the shock and awes of awesome
western 4th generation fighters fired up their imaginations hugely.”
JH-7 verses the Tornado for instance; and the Mirage-2000 was
of course a huge inspiration on the Chinese aviation industry in the 60’s.
There were plenty rumors back then of replicating L’Mirage-2000.
Yes pics inspires us. And AFM inspires all of us!
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edisononeArtwork is one thing. Trying to pass off a
photoshopped image as authentic is another. It’s bad enough that people see
fit to edit and blur images to begin with.
:p Facts, or fiction :p ?
Well… I’m not going to say
one way or the other. But, we’ll know soon
enough of course. Won’t we?
.
edisononeThat appeared a couple of moths ago I think. That’s one in a series. Great artwork.
Artworks:
I’m glad that people here are finally starting to get use
to the idea that artwork is artwork regardless if it’s Chinese or if whatever
and that it should be respected and not be singled out or criticised as pathetic
photoshops. Or I hope that this is finally the case anyhow.
I mean where will the world be today if it weren’t
for the creative imaginations of artist’s who implants their ideas and
creations in our heads and in society as a whole?
We’d still be naked cave dwellers,
Saber Tooth, Mammoth, Bengal Tiger & Panda hunters and
gatherers if that were the case…
.
edisonone… one question he might ask is “why do the
Chinese have to resort to such subterfuge to buy spare
engines from a country it bought aircraft from?”
Have it ever occured to you guys that the Chinese
might not be behind any of this at all and that what’s happening may in
fact be no more but black market buy and sell deals?
Hey! As far as the F-16 engine is concern: At this time and age,
beside the curiosities of it only, I doubt the Chinese would really have
that much interest in it. I mean it’s not as if they couldn’t get it through another
third party – Egypt or Pakistan as have been acussed in the past.
But, knowledge is knowledge, and if someone starts distributing the
inner makings of the J-10 in the open market, even if done discreetly (black market) under the table,
I’m sure there won’t be no shortage of takers – Americans inclusive…
And, as far as the Blackhawk engines are concerned: if it can be had
cheaply, again WHY NOT???? Especially since the Chinese have a few of those blood
suckers (expensive to operate) sitting there in the ground doing notin’.
IMHO, the Z-9/10 more than anything is now the backbones of the PLA.
The Blackhawks are thus but secondary to them. However, if the Chinese are indeed
involved, IMHO, it’s likely no more but merely a deal of a lifetime for them to overhaul those
blackhawks and to put them into action again and no more than that.
I mean smugglers are smugglers and black market traders are black
market traders. It doesn’t necessary have to mean that the Chinese are
behind it. I mean golly – even the average Mexican Joe are now taking advantage of this
“Chinese-disadvantage” by informing authorities that a bunch of Chinese are
terrorist when in fact what these people are is merely elegal alians.
Remember that incident about a year or so back
people? I mean why does everything have to come down
to the Chinese whenever something goes wrong?!!!
CONSPIRACY!!! Yes! CONSPIRACY, plain and simple!!!
.
edisononeThere is no change
on the J-8II airframe which already
took off in 1984
Actually, suspicions of the existence of the J-8II first
appeared in newstands via the highly popular East Asian periodical
known as “Comilit” in June of ’76, or thereabouts.
I ought to know because I was so captivated by the awesome
fighters of the day (Phantoms, F-111s, the MiG-23/27s, even the Tornados,
the F-14’s and 15’s have already made their debutes then) that I was wondering if
the Chinese might not come up with something similar to that.
I mean China after all is a big
country. She should have had the resources to spare
for something of that nature…
I suppose, however, that rather than to invest heavily in R&D’s, China’s
strategy at the time was to go the easy route, and thus selected to take “the
numerical superiority option” over costly R&D’s thus concentrated on the MiG-21 airframes
which was still a formiddable killing machine at the time — now even.
I mean how many Mach-II fighters (J-7s) can one shoot out of
the sky anyway, especially if it can be had for as cheaply, as quickly, and
as profusely as the swarms of Hornets that comes at you for that chicken wing
while in an outdoor BBQ in the summer time I guess is their logic.
Besides, faced with a looming threat from out of the north at
the time, besides the J-8’s and such, she (the Chinese) did not have the
luxuries of fiddling with new toys and ideas as she does today.
It was said then that the J-8’s was developed as a means of taking out
long range bombers coming from their northern flank at the time. I mean I wouldn’t have been
surprised at all at the time if Brezhnev might not have considered taking a blitz at China then just
as how Kruschev had to Hungary and Czechoslovakia in the 50’s and 60’s.
.
edisononeIt wouldn’t surprise me to
find out that Chinese companies may be reverse
engineering the Black Hawk…
Reverse Engineering:
Let’s look at it this way :p : If it can be had for
much easier, much quicker, and thus also much less costlier
than going through the R&D’s of it, then why not?
Take for instance the R&D’s of both the FC-1 and of the LCA: Man!!! It must’ve
cost the both an arm and a leg, bundles and bundles of sweets, and everything else you can
think of that goes in between ( :p all the sophisticated nuts and bolts that is :p ) for them to get to where
they are with it. And ironically, to this very day – it’s still not fully operational.
Truth: Reverse engineering, as it may seem, isn’t really as easy as
1 2 3 you know. Reverse engineering takes brains too. It takes inginuity. It takes
plenty of effort – it takes groups with an inkling and a desire to solve riddles, problems,
mysteries, and it takes people with an urge to achieve and succeed.
I mean you try to make a replica of something, anything, you try to
make it good and you try to make it to the most exact of specification; then you try to make it
purr and make it purr even better than the original – like the famed J-7 for instance – or J-6 if so desired,
then you tell me about reverse engineering and how simple it might be.
I mean if only everyone in the world have the capabilities of
copying and copy good. But then again, not every one in this world are as gifted,
cheap Chinese toaster of no cheap Chinese toaster that is 😀 .
Come to think of it, who was it anyway
that made the toaster’s reference here :p? Honestly,
can’t remember that far back anymore.
.
edisononeOK Deino! Hopefully, this one’s in the right place this time around:
:p
Picked up from
the pages of China.com but clearly source
says Tom.com:
So far, no one has dropped
this one here yet so what the heck! But, cool
nonetheless. Don’t you agree?
Speculative impression of Super-10?
Suggestions?
.
edisononeYes … “cool” pix !! But why do You post a picture of the ne British carrier in the Chinese New’s Tread ????
Deino :confused:
Is it British? Well… guess my eyes have betrayed me…
Anyway, I thought it was a Japanese artist’s impession by the looks of the
markings in the wings of those aircrafts (looked more like Japan’s spat of red rather than the
red white and blues of the UK). My sincerest of apologies people – honest.
And why a Chinese thread? And why not a Chinese thread?! After all,
Chinese threads have been well known for CG works of arts and of photoshops
and – photoshopped works of arts comes in many shapes, forms, sizes, and, it comes not only in
the color of Chinese red — it comes in all of the colors of the rainbow 😮 .
I mean you of all people should understand the phyche’s of it Deino :diablo:
I wonder if Japanese red hurts this fella’s eyes as it does Chinese red.
.
edisononeJoker,
If China was more like Japan or Taiwan, China would be a valued Ally, Instead China is merely a trading partner with a confused government, It doesn't know If It wants to be aligned with Captitalism or Communism.Americans made Japan out to be worse than the Soviet Union in the 70s and 80s.
Who said China wants to be a subordinate of the West especially the US. Contrary to what you may want to believe, being a “valued ally” of the US just means you know your place and take orders from Americans. It bugs Americans that China doesn’t get in back of the line. That’s the real reason for American animosity towards China.
“Valued ally” is relative. China under treaty would’ve launch an attack on the Soviet Union if there was a war between the USSR and the US. How many Chinese would’ve been nuked for the US? Now since the Cold War is over, the US is concerned about democracy and human rights? Didn’t care about it during the Cold War especially when right-wing dictators around the world killed for the US. The US dumped Pakistan too after they were a steadfast US ally throughout the Cold War and helped in Afghanistan against the Soviets. As a result, it’s a breeding ground for terrorists. You make it sound like having the US as your King is some sort of honor.
No one in the USA hates China, At least 99% or so don't and the rest are too dumb to know better.You are seriously wrong! If that were true there wouldn’t be so much paranoia about China in the US.
Rambo? I think You've been watching too many moviesYou just have to read the threads here to see every cheerlearder for the US (including your remarks) believe the PLA has no chance against the US. Funny how Americans forget the Korean War. Not such a cake walk for the US.
I mean If You think movies are what Americans and America is all about then You are sadly mistakenSorry to tell you this but I’m American, born and reared. Americans do confuse themselves with images in movies. Americans really could care less about human rights violations around the world simply because they allow allies and there own government to commit them. In movies, Americans stand up against all wrongs. In reality American who dare to question anything that might expose the US negatively would be labeled a traitor and and a terrorist.
If you’re American, then you well know that Americans love to romaticize themselves like in movies. Jessica Lynch was made into Rambo yet she did nothing of the sort of action. I could spend endless amounts of space here givings examples of Americans confusing themselves with the heroism in movies. You’re simply wrong.
Here’s the drift:
:p Dr. Sanjay Gupta :p of CNN… doesn’t
he seem to, and wants to, appear as if he’s mainstream
America :p? But, does he make the grade?
My opinion: culturally, it’s passing grade for him. But psychologically
and mentally speaking – “:p that distinction that he’s of the medical profesion :p” is just plain
unavoidable… I mean Urrrgh… Dentists… They just make me shiver!
I mean why can’t he be more like Anderson Cooper?…
Now, about Mr. Joker:
Mainstream America, IMHO, does not have this obsession that
Mr. Joker does. Mainstream America are confident creatures – they know
they are a naturally accepted member of society – they don’t need to make impressions of
themselves on the expenses of others that some people does.
My personal opinion only of course.
.
edisononeI wouldn’t go so far as to say inept, China inept? No. Is China trying to make second hand Soviet junk work right, Sure, It’s their money to waste. If China was more like Japan or Taiwan, China would be a valued Ally, Instead China is merely a trading partner with a confused government, It doesn’t know If It wants to be aligned with Captitalism or Communism. Is America an Empire? No as that would mean America has an Emperor and America doesn’t have that, Nor is America willing to tolerate that either, We have checks and balances to keep that from ever happening and the Military takes an Oath to uphold the Constitution and Laws of the USA(Not to be confused with the old sailing ship of the same name of course).
Anger? I think You confuse concern for anger, As that is all It is over here, Anger is an emotional response that has nothing to do with the cold hard facts. Reagan was Reagan, Times have changed, No one in the USA hates China, At least 99% or so don’t and the rest are too dumb to know better.
Rambo? I think You’ve been watching too many movies, Americans are not like Him, Some that are in the Military, May be slightly like Him physically, But that is as close as It would get. Rambo is a feel good Movie only and is a product of Hollywood and is in no way related to the US government at all, as Hollywood does what It wants within the Constitution and Laws in the USA(It’s also a way for an aging actor to make some more money too), Heck owning the M-60 Machine Gun or any machine gun over here is not legal at all and hasn’t been since around 1930 or so(Movie Studios can get a Federal permit though and It is strictly enforced). I doubt most Americans think that way as We view war as a last resort, But It’s not something to be avoided at all costs of course as there are limits(The Japanese Government and Nazi Germany in WWII thought America would roll over and Sue for Peace back in 1941, We didn’t). The Boys Scouts of America have a motto and It is “Be Prepared” and that philosophy is a good and prudent one.I mean If You think movies are what Americans and America is all about then You are sadly mistaken, We like our freedom of course, Of course Freedom is not unlimited, Nor should It be, As reasonable limits are in place already and have been for longer than I have been alive. When changes needed to be made, Changes were made to happen by consensus(by an elected majority). We don’t like Bribery of officials of course as We don’t consider It honest, Tips for some non governmental professions are allowed though. The USA had to build the TVA back in the 30’s to improve the lives of the people of the Tennessee Valley area with a massive project, Some people were against It and It went through the courts and the courts ruled that people had to be compensated and moved at government expense and the US government did that. Would China do that? Would It establish an Independent Court and obey any decision It made, Even If that decision was not to the Communist Partys liking?
Oh and as to Rambo again, Are You sure on the “every individual American is a Rambo” remark?
As I’m currently disabled and receiving SSI, I could hardly at near 400lbs look anything like rambo, Much less scare anything bigger than a house cat.
Know something, Joker? Aren’t all those things that you are refering to
and/or describing in fact none other but that of an exact mirroring of your very
own tiny and silly inner self :p ? I mean if the Chinese of this board goes about and makes
such self-made/silly statements, they’d be crucified by the masses here.
“You try to come up with some second hand soviet
junk and make it work right for the rest of us to witness live
and I’ll say you or your world too have what it takes.”
Give it up my friend. I mean trashing the Chinese is not going
to make your pride feel any better than it is. Instead of tormenting and abusing
yourself in the inside as you do, why don’t you show the rest of us some substance instead.
Show us the real stuff that is, instead of all talk and no action.
“Magic is magic – regardless if it’s to do with Soviet or if Chinese junks.”
Incidentally, I think the one that’s confused is yourself my friend and
not the Chinese government. Because, the Chinese government sure as the
heck know where they are headed. But, what about you? Do you know where you
are headed besides the direction that people with damaged prides go?
I mean what an outburst!
It be a cryin crime if people stay mute on
this one now wouldn’t it?
Substance:
More fiddling with Soviets junks 😮 :
(fusion technology to replicate power of the sun)?
I mean imagine the sheer challenges and imagine the mammoth size of
such a project. Then imagine if they indeed succeed where the Soviets and others “have not” inputed
their efforts… Who needs oil and who needs nuclear energy therehence…
So! Show us your money, Mr. Joker.
.
edisononePLA (AF/N) = The Most Photoshopped and Speculous Military Force in the World.
Photoshopped Limited Army.
The Most Photoshopped and Speculous:
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one Francois. The buhgers!
The dilemma with their works of art however is this: They are turning many of those fine
photoshopped works of arts into reality and — that’s whats troubling.
Hey! I mean even Bill Gertz and this Fisher Guy is rolling their eyeballs over it.
But, fear not my friend, because I can almost gaurantee you that the Chinese are doing
all of this just for the show of it. They are species of pride and the prestigiousness of a top notch
armed force along with a workable manned space program is what makes them tick! I mean
a nation in the calabers of China does need something to show for don’t they?
I mean think about it: They don’t even have an enemy in the world.
Back to photoshops: My friend, you can’t deny it that these guys are extremely
good at what they do. I mean their works of arts, though lame as it may seem, may in fact
inpired a whole new generation of aeronautic engineers and scientists for the world of tomorrow just as
how the comics strips of the yesteryear had inspired Batmans, Supermans, and the awesome
engineers and scientists of today who makes the space shuttle the reality it is.
I mean who knows if their fantasies
may not in fact make the USS Starship Enterprise
into a reality one of these days!
.
edisononeWho said its obsolete?. Its been at sea for 20 years,
on and off, so you cant suggest that the Sterling Engine is
cutting edge tech – that is just a straight fact.
Well…
AIP is pretty cool stuff indeed and as such “the Chinese were said to
have not been capable of the technology” regardless if the tech was transferred
or if otherwise until just recently where remotely there exists the possibility that they (the Chinese)
too might be fiddling with the science. Then, all of suddent, the science of AIP is
not cool anymore and it’s all simply because the Chinese are into it :p .
Human instincts, it’s simply unbelievable isn’t it?
The fuel cell tech offers,
seemingly, much greater endurance and discretion rates –
therefore it is the superior technology.
My portfolio is loaded with fuel cells, fuel cells of all types that is, and my fingers
are crossed that it’ll be my ticket to a world of luxury, fun, and just plain laying around in the warmth
of the Bahamas sun and not a worry to be concerned about. Need I say more?
Where is the controversy?
Just a little kidding around of course :p : Controversey:
Source: from an imaginary subterranean world ruled by pterosaurs – maybe. I believe
it was known as Journey to The Center of The Earth.
.
edisononeSome subs
PS:
Hey guys, there is allot of talk about a chinese AIP at CDF. Similar to something called a Sterling type?? Anymore info ppl???
Already a controversial subject. Reason:It has to do with the Chinese therefore the science had just become obsolete.http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37296&page=13&pp=40
edisononeI even believe in UFOs and Aliens, but, what about this?
Uneasy topic for AFM. But, a
controversial conversation/argumentative piece for sure.
(Babblefish definitely needed)
I mean who knows
if the mighty Gertz might come out
with this one also?
Anyway, not wagering my money on anything anymore
these days. Much too risky. I mean it’s almost like betting on the stock
market. It can either be like, “Chevron I think,” which has just announced a 3-1 split
for your money, or it can turn into a dud just like Enron.
.
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