TMorThanks Arthuro, but a bit off-topic, don’t you think ?
TMorYes that is definite evidence,
you could draw on the double f-15E knockout.
Not really impressive.
Speaking about propaganda, you could go on about how the typhoon performed in competitions;
Being the only one to demonstrate supercruise, knocking out 3 f-16s, demonstrating excellent performance at one competition-nt to sure which one, maybe singapore? out performed rafale etc..
The fact is that you believe what may be propaganda.
Typhoon may have been the only one to supercruise exactly how Sings wanted (and i don’t know about this being true or not). But about the F-16s, you don’t know what Rafale did (you don’t know what F-15 achieved too), as the Dassault man I spoke to had no idea of what eurofighter could have demonstrated.
I just dont think the typhoon always has to SHOUT about what it can do. People already know its brilliant. The F-22 has to SHOUT to justify why its actually here.
I think nearly the opposite.
F-22 is the first all around stealth fighter, with the first in-service AESA radar, and first occidental in-service TVC.
By itself, and knowing the USA knowledge, everyone knows how incredible this machine must be, and it’s a great airplace by its nature, which in itself justifies why Hollywood love it so much.
Typhoon had to survive against fierce criticizm in early 90s, and since at least 1994, i read every where that it’s the second best after F-22 (and in 1994, it was far from being demonstrated). This was pushed in a lot of publications, magazines (even and mainly after Singapore, while to me, it’s not justified).
With the decreased orders for the F-22, and lobbies against it, USAF has just the right to defend its fighter, nonotheless, i think that it’s very different to what happens with the Eurofighter (i’m not saying it’s never justified).
TMorThe letter to AFM (i haven’t seen a copy of it, here) :
Eurofighter slays’Em!
I remember reading around two years ago about the prowess of Eurofighter over other aircraft. Well, this anecdote will probably “get out” one day and concerns the visit to these shores in july (see deadly charmers, september 2007, p60-63) of indian air force Su-30s. The MoD said what it would not be putting Typhoons up against them as a one-on-one fight. This is general knowledge. However – it did happen and there is Head Up Display video to prouve it. I don’t know how it came about – probably during some exercice.
Anyway, two relatively inexperienced Typhoon pilots returned with big grins on their faces. The Sukhois were “toasted”. All the Su-30’s air display antics came to nought – The Typhoons proved too nimble and to powerful for the russian aircraft. The Typhoon were not “clean” either. You can check with the MoD, but you probably already know the kind of answer you’ll get! (We did, and they wouldn’t – Editor).
The original article resulted in several letters of response about Thyphoon versus the F-22. This cannot be confirmed or admitted officially, but during Typhoon’s visit to the USA in 2005, both aircraft were pitted against each over (unofficially, you understand). The F-22 could not be seen by the Typhoon Pilot, but is electronic counter measures showed him that it was being “Painted” by is opponent. The Typhoon took appropriate “measures” using self-defensive aids. But when it came to one-on-one combat, the Typhoon did the same kind of job as it did with the sukhois. The F-22 could not “handle” Typhoon close in and the Yanks were shocked! It did not all go Typhoon’s way on this occasion but it was a sobering encounter for the americans. Remember, on the F-22 much was sacrified in terms of “fighter performance” for stealth.
The first part of this letter, regarding the Sukhois, I have from first-hand experience, though the second part – about the F-22s – has come to me through the Typhoon grapevine. Fascinating, isn’t it? The typhoon does appear to be a truly formidable machine – a machine feared by “other” operators.
Name withheld via e-mail
TMorOk, Fox Three started in 2000.
Then :
Fox Three n°8 (nothing earlier) :
While rival late-generation fighters
“rival late-generation” doesn’t make Rafale a generation ahead.
N°9
When a single country makes your aircraft from nose to tail, you know exactly what you’re getting into. Rafale is not subject to multinational controls. It also offers unrestricted access to key weapon systems technologies, spare parts,
No generation matter here.
N°10…
Rafale carries out different complex combat assignments simultaneously. This makes it different from so-called “multirole” or “swing-role” aircraft. Higher systems integration, advanced data fusion, and inherent low observability all make Rafale the first true omnirole fighter.
No generation matter here.
Oh ! Finally, Fox Three 11 (2007) :
Compare that to the maintenance requirements of other late-generation fighters. And then carefully calculate the impact Rafale’s better design can have on your total life-cycle costs and dispatch reliability. Rafale. A generation ahead.
LoL.
Since 1994, Eurofighter is the second best.
Since 2007, Rafale is a generation ahead.
No really, Eurofighter’s marketing was a full generation ahead of Dassault’s. 😀
2004 :
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43856
Rival late generation fighters offer your armed forces almost everything required. They’re almost on budget. They’re almost on schedule. They’re almost ready to fly the full range of missions needed to be truly effective. But what if ‘almost’ isn’t good enough? Omnirole Rafale offers the most versatile, most cost-effective, most technologically evolved military performance available in a late generation fighter today. Rafale. A most welcome alternative to endless promises, and almost endless delays. Rafale. The OMNIROLE fighter
TMor😀 😀 😀
TMorYou ask me to provide sources on something that did not happen. how on earth can i do that ?
It did happen, when Rafale M F1 left for Afghanistan earlier this year (and met the intalian Typhoon).
And maybe it happened during Sky Lance 07 (Scotland).
And you said :
During those exercices, the typhoon proved nothing against the rafale so far.
I think that’s why Rob asked you source, as i did by PM 😉
We actually have no source. Neither to tell us that Typhoon won, nor that Rafale won.
TMorAll of this made me laugh, you have a go at AFM, but then post an extract from a French magazine that is a trillion times more biased?
Come on Rob. My point with the extract was that French pilots are laughing, not that the magazine is biased. After all, the magazine only talks about the french point of view.
I have the same opinion as Scorpion about the letter in AFM, I just find surprising that AFM published it. And i was merely kidding about the possibility that any unsigned document is published as well.
And? French posters very often claim Rafale is better than Typhoon,
But it’s not written everywhere in Dassault’s propaganda 😀 Fora posters are posters.
The French basically claim Rafale won the “real” export competition each time it looses out
Korea, and Singapour. In very similar contexts.:o
TMorI hope the typhoon will daign to show her wings at redflags this year so that it can eventually prove her so superior AA capabilities… or not
C’est prévu. 😉
Eurofighter and Rafale have met several times already iirc.
Ok, but when/where ?
They were pitted against Italian Typhoon (Rafale M F1 vs Typhoon block2 ?)… We have no results.
We don’t know what happened during Sky Lance 07 (Rafale M F1/F2)… Then ?
So all the exercises done so far mean nothing? Typhoon proved very well during the exercises it participated.
Rafale also proved very good at TLP and Tiger Meet… They were also superior to Gripen, even with an heavy loadout (Reims). They’ve been training in Saudi Arabia, and of course (according to our beloved minister Morin), has shown superior by far to any fighter in the Gulf.
Then, we agree on the fact that we have no results about Typhoon vs Rafale, though it happened. I just expect to see AFM publish a letter from un unknown guy reporting about how superior the Typhoon has shown :p
Actually, in June, in the magazine “DSI” about the TLP :
“C’est la première fois que l’on participait à un exercice considéré comme majeur au niveau de l’OTAN. Alors que l’on était “taskés” pour faire de l’air-sol -à noter : tous les objectifs ont été atteints- l’avion a eu le deuxième kill-ratio en air-air. Le Rafale a assuré son propre nettoyage du ciel, ce qui a beaucoup impressionné les pilotes de F-15″, raconte, passionné, le commandant Levitte, responsable de la cellule renseignement de l’escadron. Et les équipages attendent avec impatience de se mesurer à d’autres appareils dans d’autres exercices. Par exemple, au Typhoon, qui a annoncé vouloir participer à l’exercice Red Flag en début d’année prochaine, pour démontrer ses capacités de “meilleur avion européen”. Ici, on n’ose pas rire, même si sous cape, c’est tout comme…
Sum up :
As the Rafale performed very well during TLP, even in air2air, the pilots can’t wait to be pitted against other aircraft, such as the Typhoon which is to come to Red Flag to prove it’s the best european fighter. This (in June) made the French laugh.
😀 Maybe in June, they still could laugh…:)
TMorThat Airtime Publishing allowed that kind of crap to be published in their magazine astounds me.
In my opinion, this is the real question in this story…
Who’s the writter of such a letter ? What did AFM know about him to accept publishing it ? Why was it published ?
TMorBut perhaps weapons like AASM are an interim step before we see individually guided 70-mm rockets?
Such rockets are being considered, according to T&A (Technologies et Armement).
Laser guided rockets.:rolleyes:
TMorIt seems that the magazine “Air Fan” has published a bunch of news about the Rafale…
I can’t say for sure (i don’t have it yet), but among them :
-the F2 will start being retrofitted in F3 as early as mid-2008
-if we can get the foundings, HMS and voice command could be introduced between 2012 and 2015… ! :rolleyes:
-possible integration of Tiger’s 68mm rockets;
-new config planned : 4 Mica + 3 AASM + 3 GBU-12/22 + 1 GBU-24 (and Damocles) + 2x 2000L tanks.
It can’t wait to see this one fly 😀 It sounds like an impressive weapon load.
TMorIs there gonna be a replacement for this lost Rafale?
I don’t think so. We do not pay 294 aircraft to have all of them fly at the same time.
:confused:
TMorEarlier in that thread it was mentionned that for the Rafale F3 standard, the autopilot would automatically recover the plane in such cases.
Someone told me that french AdA didn’t ordered it… 😡 😡 😡
if he becomes disoriented?
I’m not a specialist, but i’ve read that in such a situation (spatial disorientation), sometimes, pilots don’t even realize they are disoriented… They mistrust the instruments, and thus…
TMorwas the pro-all French drive of Nationalism around that time.
We build our own engines. Why dropping the Snecma in the process ?
TMorAnd so, i’d like someone to prove me that this Mirage couldn’t supercruise at Mach1.3 (even if it had to break the sound barrier with AB).
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