RE: Australia’s refugee problem

I have no problem with Australia not taking in refugees. My problem is with how they are treated. Keeping them in the desert in abysmal conditions is inhumane and does not reflect well with Australians.

There are plenty of other ways to deal with it than putting them in death camps without their claims being expedited. They should be deported immediately.

Sam.

My fault for arguing with a 17 year old ignoramus

>Serendib, what’s your problem pal? Again, I’ll maintain I
>haven’t said America was a totally innocent country, I
>simply believe we receive more criticism than is necessary
>from this particular board.

My problem? Sorry, but you are barking up the wrong tree you ignorant red neck. America is policing in the world and since it is the self proclaimed leader in the world, and has a hand in everything; invariably, America will attract criticism. Some constructive, some not. Get used to it.

>Every other week there is a new
>topic about how America has done this or we have one that.
>Well how about putting up topics about other countries that
>do things wrong? Nobody is perfect.

If America is making policy that affects other nations every other week, countries/and individuals are bound to be critical of certain actions that effect them. If there are other nations that make policy then they too will be criticised. Believe it or not, America is always at the forefront of policymaking in this world.

>Regarding Iraq, I want
>an honest answer from you. Do you support this man? You are
>Egyptian correct? I can imagine you’d like to see Israel
>destroyed, or am I wrong? Because if Saddam remains in power
>Israel is one of the targets he will hit. I don’t suppose as
>an Egyptian you are two fond of the Israelis seeing as 1967
>& 1973 resulted in embarrassing losses for Egypt. As far as
>that book is concerned if I have time I might pick it up, if
>I have time. I’ll look into it though.

Sorry, you are mistaken on several counts. Firstly, I am not Egyptian; I am Asian (Sri Lanka). Secondly, I don’t support Saddam never have and never will. You must be referring to your own nation, which supported Saddam, allowed him to build his nuclear reactor, allowed him access to sensitive US materials, helped his biological weapons programme and stood and clapped when he went to war with Iran. Then you people decided to start the gulf war all the while chanelling arms to him that continued well after the war. Then you labelled him a dictator and a threat to world peace when in actual fact he was a ‘bum chum’ of the US in the Reagan and Bush administrations.

The least you can do is have your facts straight when debating.

Sam.

How about reading some books….

P II, how about heading to a library and reading the book Spider’s Web so we can have a constructive debate with HARD FACTS. Or, are you not bothered in knowing hard facts and more interested in bringing out fallacies and inaccurate examples to support your rhetoric that the US is “constantly being singled out for no apparent reason.”

Let me give you the rules of engagement(ROE) to this debate.

– Don’t whine about people being “anti-american”. That is not a constructive reply to this debate. We are not dealing with some religious fundamentalists here, and no one including myself have any hatred for America.

– Talk facts, not fiction. Don’t have a ‘holier than thou’ attitude and put America on a pedestal all the while hollering America can do no wrong and believes in a democratic world. Also, no one here is painting a rosy picture of Europe or the rest of the world, so don’t flatter yourself that we are absolving our nations of any wrong doing.

– Don’t make baseless claims about the rest of the world not being involved in any peace keeping missions and not putting their necks in the line of fire. Lot’s of members have given european examples and I want to add India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia and Nigeria to name a few who have been involved extensively in peace-keeping operations. Most people don’t know this, because these nations don’t make a huge ruckus about it.

I hope this is clear to you, since I got tired of your constant replies that have no facts but whining how great America is and how lucky you are to be born there. Guess what, all of us are happy to be born in our respective countries and we wouldn’t trade that for anything in this world.

P II, the problem most people on this board have with America is that America’s foreign policy is based on contradiction of everything what it stands for. America has/will support dictators (e.g.- Iran during Shah’s regime, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iraq, Panama, San Salvador, Chile, Phillipines, Zaire, e.t.c.)

Does America unilaterally support nations fighting terrorism? Absolutely not. (e.g.- India, Sri Lanka, England (IRA issue), Indonesia, Nepal, Sierra Leone, Rwanda, e.t.c)

The problem with Iraq is that Saddam Hussein was the “good guy” at one time and was America’s greatest friend. Was he supressing his people then? Absolutely. Was he stockpiling chemical/bilogical weapons? Absolutely. Was he a dictator? Absolutely? Was he beneficial to America during the Iran turmoil? Absolutely.

Now, he is classified as the “bad guy.” Reasons? Failure to tow the US line at all times, and not allowing the US to dictate foreign policy to Iraq. Hard to believe? Probably. Fact? Yes. Did you
know that during the Reagan administration VP George Bush was very vocal in supporting Iraq? Did you know that nothing had changed as far as Saddam Hussein was concerned with matters related to building WMD, suppressing his people, e.t.c. upto the Gulf War? Did you know that in the Reagan Admin. only the secretary of state was against supporting Iraq and he was forced to tow the line and support Iraq with the other members of the cabinet?

I will not tolerate any arguments from you UNLESS YOU READ THE BOOK and will know all the facts regarding Saddam Hussein and the deplorable double standards of the US.

How about the American overthowing the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Prime Minister of Iran and propping the shah? Is this constant with what America stands for?

What about America supporting the tyrannical regime of Ferdinand Marcos of The Phillipines who was a dictator in every sense?

What about America having an about-turn of policy viz-a-viz democracy in Pakistan and throwing their weight behind a dictator who siezed power in a coup, disposing a DEMOCRATICALLY elected Prime Minister in the process?

I want answers with hard facts consistent with history and not some false interpretations of how America had no hand in supporting terrorism and allowing terrorist fund rasing activities to go on under their “watchful” eye.

Sam.

RE:

>I’ll close by stating again how lucky I feel to live where I
>do and with the opportunities that I have. Sorry we can’t
>all agree, but that’s life I suppose.

Its funny how all these Americans think that they are the only ones in this world who are free. I lived in the US for 7 years and I used to laugh my arse off everytime the news anchors would start talking about how free the US is and how supressed people are around the world. Believe it or not P II, I come from a free country too and I enjoy everything that you American’s enjoy.

When I was in the States and I was introduced to someone, and I told them where I am from and all that, they used to say Ohhh, Sri Lanka. And then I would ask do you know where that is, most would be shame faced and say no (even though they acted as if they knew where it was the first time) but then there were a few cowboys who said “hell, yeah I know where it is” isn’t that just below Australia?? I would keep a straight face and say ‘no, that’s Tasmania.’ And invarably the next question was always something to do with freedom, are you free? what kind of government do you have? And one older gentleman once told me that it is the fault of the news service, since they always paint america as being a free nation and the rest of the world being ‘in shackles.’

P II, I excuse you for being ignorant; I hope you will mature in years to come.

>Refer to me what you will Sam, it dosen’t bother me. I know
>I’m glad that I only share my looks with Europeans though.
>Certainly not my views.

How about sharing the same culture(for the most part) and dressing in the same clothes? However much you try be distinct for the europeans, it is futile; you folks share so many similarities with mainland europe.

Sam.

RE: How time flys

>Well you have a point about the bulk of european immigration
>into the Americas occuring from 1800, however the sense of
>being American or Canadian (as examples) had developed to a
>significant degree by then. Perhaps that is dificult for
>some folks to understand.

There is a reason for that. Firstly, Canada is not party to all the PC going on in the US, and also Canada is not the melting-pot America is. Canadians use the term French-Canadian to differentiate them from the British-Canadians (this was done in the past, and not commonly done any more) who were very loyal to their British heritage. In the future, with more and more non european immigrants coming in we may see the US example of classifying them according to their ethnicity. Sauron, I have been exposed to more cultures than you are; so please don’t be in a hurry to tell me that I don’t understand. For your info in the 1800’s being an American or Canadian had not developed to any significant degree. The only issue of resentment was the fact that the new immigrants wanted self-rule.

>I do not recall ever hearing the term European-Canadian used
>in common speech in Canada (nor by Americans that I am
>aware) but I suppose now that Europeans no longer see
>themselves as distinct nationalities or members of an ethnic
>group, it is the more politically correct term for us to
>use. J

See above post.

>Just a minor point, but I didn’t say that Europe was the
>centre of the world’s attention, only that it wants to
>be.:-)

You have a lot more to learn. By the way how old are you? I won’t be surprised if you are a teenager, going by the examples of your replies. ‘The older you are, the wiser you get’ is a good rule of thumb.

If you think it is Europe and not America that wants to be centre of the world’s attention, I feel sorry for you. Travel a little more and read a few more books. How about you folks reading Spider’s Web by Alan Friedman (he is an American by the way) and learning something new?

Sam.

RE: How time flys

>Europeans in the Americas for only 200 yrs?. 🙂 Thats sort
>of like saying nothing happened in the UK before 1066.

I am talking about mass european colonization of the America’s. Yes, and that did happen largely in the last 200 years.

>Yes you are correct that the many Americas are still
>somewhat “euopean” based on origin but IMHO thats as far as
>it goes. Amazing or not, North Americans, while quite aware
>of their origins, certainly do not consider themselves
>Euro-American, at least not in my experience. Perhaps some
>Europeans still view the Americas the way they wish they
>were rather than the way they are. The colonials as the
>British used to say.

You may not consider yourselves not euro-american, but that is what you are when we categorize based on ethinicity. African-American, Asian-American, Arab-American, Euro-American, e.t.c.

>From my prospective, many Europeans still feel the need to
>be the centre of the world’s attention again and that is why
>they appear to resent the US at times. A return to the glory
>days of the early 1900’s. Perhaps this is illustrated by the
>circle of stars which adorns the EU flag. 🙂

I don’t want to speak for the europeans, I am sure most of them will disagree with you. I am not sure the europeans “resent” the US, but most certainly they disagree with some US policies. As for being the centre of the world’s attention, that title goes the the US and not to europe.

Sam.

RE:

>Garry, the reason Vort keeps brining up your name is because
>you have shown more anti-US sentiment than you are willing
>to admit. I’ll go no further, but stop acting as if you are
>not a part of the anti-US crusade headed by the Euros.

The way you seem to label the “euros”, one would almost think that the majority of folks in America including you are not of european descent.

Since we live in a political correct society, I will be labeling you as a Euro-American in future discussions, since that is what you are. Unless you are Native American :+

Its amazing how the euro-americans love to distinguish themselves totally from the old world europeans when they share so many similarities between them. One would never imagine that the euro-americans colonized america only in the last 200 years and most are descendents of immigrants that colonized in the early part of this century.

Sam.

RE: American Bashing!

>Serendib, while many of your replies have been obective,
>you’ve had a few that were more biased against the US. I’ll
>give you credit though, you aren’t nearly as much a part of
>the problem as others like Geforce for example.

P II,
I challenge you to point out where I have been biased against the US. If you consider constructive criticism being biased, then I rest my case because I am guilty as charged. It is strange that you find my comments biased, when none of the euopean members I have ‘bumped shoulders with’ have perceived me as being anti-european.

>Regarding my
>reluctance to believe my country’s government has lied. At
>not time have I denied that it has. Of course we have lied.
>We’ve done things we never should have done. I’m not going
>to deny that. No country is perfect. My whole point of
>getting angry is that America is constantly played out as
>the bad guy by many on this forum and I’m sick of it.

No country is infallible, and I am sure everyone here agrees. I don’t recall anyone giving an example of a utopic nation. I think you perceive every critical example of the US as being “anti-american.” I am sure most of the members are not taking you seriously in the regard, since most of us here have stated time and time again that no one is anti-american. What do you say to people like mixtec who is an American but critical of US foreign policy? Is he a traitor? Or has he lived long enough to see the ‘puppet strings’ of American foreign policy? Think about it.

>People
>on here act as if my country has never done a good thing for
>the world. While in reality, we’ve done a great deal of good
>things to help many people. While not perfect, I’d say
>America as a whole has had a positive influence on the
>world.

America has given a lot of great things to this world and has done a lot for this world. Most people agree to it, and I am not sure how you come with your twisted views. America has had a positive influence in this world, no one denies that. But, when discussing current foreign policy, we discuss what is at hand at this moment and what led up to it; not what America did 50 years viz-a-viz the Nazi’s and “freed europe” from the tyranny of Hitler.

>But, I reiterate, at not time did I say we were
>perfect. As far as being hypocritical, yes, I’ll agree we
>can be, in fact, sometimes I wish we’d leave certain things
>alone and just not get involved, but you can’t deny that
>some of these Euros on here aren’t hypocritical and you
>can’t deny that countries in Europe and around the world
>aren’t hypocritical.

Your argument is leading nowhere. Show me one reply that supports your argument about members painting a rosy picture of europe. I have said numerous times that no country is infallible and I am the first to admit that. The problem lies with the fact that America paints a picture where it shows itself as the bastion of democracy and the voice of freedom when in actuality it is window-washing in its finest form. America thrives on wars, America loves dictators, and America has supported terrorists/is supporting terrorists/will support terrorists AS LONG AS TERRORISM IS CONDUCTED OUTSIDE THE US AND DOES NOT IN ANYWAY HARM US INTERESTS. America’s war on terrorism is a big sham, because America has always supported terrorists as long as they were not terrorizing America. The issue with September 11th was that terrorism finally reared its head in America; while all the time other nations around the world were battling terrorism 24/7.

Sam.