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garryA

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Viewing 15 posts - 496 through 510 (of 948 total)
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  • garryA
    Participant

    Why I have to explain the things that so obvious

    Because they are not actually obvious but rather your baseless assumptions

    It is understood that MIG35 carries 50℅ more fuel than MIG29A but it is much larger airframe and reinforced for 5 wet points with 10℅ more powerful engines and despite that it has identical top speed and much higher altitude and 50℅ more operational distance.

    Yes Mig-35 carry more fuel than MIG29A, that why it has more range, no one arguing about that.
    Similar top speed really nothing to talk about because at that speed it likely to be intake or placard limit rather than drag limit (which coincidentally same for F-35Aand F-35C, C version has much bigger wing, alot draggier, and heavier too.And F-35C even use the same engine. Yet despite all that, they have the same top speed).

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216999&d=1369614744
    Now on to altitude, you haven’t post any chart to show that Mig-35 can reach the same altitude as Mig-29 let alone higher altitude. Given that Mig-35 is heavier but has the same wing area of 38m2, i dont see why it should be able to fly higher.

    All the change from Mig29 to Mig-35 is not that much different from change between F-18C to F-18E

    garryA
    Participant

    According to this http://defense-update.com/products/c/F-16-CFT.htm

    Centerline tank has drag index of 18 when fully loaded , centerline pylon has drag index of 7
    https://s12.postimg.org/ifzxy61kd/cft.jpg

    So 12*( 18+7)/100 =3 even less drag than a single Aim-120

    So basically this
    https://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/f-16-aggressor.jpg

    is more draggy than this

    http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2044/F-16E_Block_60.jpg

    Look certainly is deceiving, i guess

    garryA
    Participant

    I am referring to long range standoff air to surface weopons. not the small ones.

    SPEAR can reach about 100 km, that is plenty of range for a stealth aircraft

    The key word is operational range of 1.5 times of MIG-29. It means more powerful engines , bigger area and more electronics have no impact on weight and aerodynamics. this called. technology improvement.

    http://www.janes.com/article/58889/mig-35-pre-production-batch-to-start-flight-tests-soon

    Not really, more range either mean more fuel or more efficient engine with smaller TSFC. It doesn’t mean bigger area or more powerful engine. And more fuel would mean more weight, if wing area remains the same that would lead to higher lift loading with the same CLmax. So that will reduce ITR.

    I have no doubt MIG35 will outperform F16 in all flight parameters with loaded weopons.

    It doesn’t matter what you believe , it matters what you can prove

    garryA
    Participant

    MIG-31BM posting HAF manual is worthless . It’s of a fighter with no AESA and IRST

    No, AESA and IRST increase weight but aerodynamic factors like Cdo and CL should be the same, it possible to estimate performance from his charts if you have aerodynamic knowledge

    and it can barely hold 2.7tons of internal fuel.

    And it has 1 engine while Mig-35 has 2

    There is no idea about ew suite

    HAF block 50+ has internal ew suite, it is called ASPIS II

    MIG-35 is complete package over the top of MIG-29K.

    You still haven’t posted any chart to show that Mig-35 has better or even equal ITR/STR to Mig-29A. Then also no chart to show that it can reach much higher speed and altitude compared to F-16 when carry 4 KH-31 and 2 R-77 (similar configuration).

    F-35 is quite fat plane too carry at most 2 missile. It will have carry missiles outside for saturated attack.

    No, 6AAM internally at block 4.4 and 8 AGM internally with SPEAR
    http://i.imgur.com/SKSuldO.png
    http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=17513&mode=view
    http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=11261&t=1

    There is reason TAF F-16 are avoiding Syrian MIG-29.

    And that reason is international laws

    garryA
    Participant

    Where are Andraxxus and Starfish when we need them eh?

    garryA
    Participant

    ^ That true

    From flight manual , LAU-118 has drag index of 17 , AGM-88 has drag index of 8. Wing tip missiles has drag index of 0. So with 2 AGM-88 and 2 AIM-120, F-16 will have drag index of 50. With 4 AGM-88 and 2 AIM-120 , F-16 will have drag index of 100
    With drag index of 50 and about 50% internal fuel , F-16 max altitude is 53k feet and top speed is Mach 1.9. With drag index of 100 ,F-16 top speed reduced to Mach 1.79

    May be adding DI of central pylon too?. One thing that been bugging me though, why the heck HAF manual not have DI for CFT? their F-16 carry that tumor thinggy all the time
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2942/15372207786_029d09d61b_b.jpg

    garryA
    Participant

    I have no Rafale obsession.. In fact, I haven’t even studied this aircraft much, I am much more versed in various Russian stuff..

    TBH, both you are very nationalistic (even though not to JSR or blackadam level yet) .Personally i prefer reading Mig posts , not because they are similar to what i think, but because they often more technical or numerical base. Some what similar to stealthflanker or Andraxxus posts. Interesting even if i disagree with them.

    garryA
    Participant

    Andrxx does not have any data that’s why he escaped from discussion

    Mig-31 just posted the page from HAF manual above. Iam sure Andraxxus has those too.

    You have to consider weight and drag penalty of missile before range

    JSM, MALD, JSOW-ER are all very small, they can fit inside F-35 weapon bay

    MIG-35 is designed for higher performance than Flanker.

    Mig-35 can excess F-16 performance at high altitude because it has variable intake. But again something like flanker or Eagle? No chance

    Look at its 19km altitude and that carrying heavier AESA radar.

    Do you have any charts for it?

    It has higher TWR due to minimum 15℅ composite by weight

    higher T/W than what?

    garryA
    Participant

    Russian missiles generally outperform US made in range. just look at cruise missile ranges

    JSOW-ER, JSM has about 560 km range
    JASSM-ER has 1000 km range
    MALD has 920 km range
    Range wise US cruise missiles tend to have better range

    you don’t have any data what speeds F-16 operate with loaded with 4Ashm

    Iam sure he does, those data are available in flight manual. Even me have them

    .MIG-35 can launch Kh-31PMD/AD at Mach 1.5 and over 15km altitude.

    Did you just took the max launch altitude and speed of KH-31 then assuming that mig-35 can do that??? what if missiles was launch from su-27?

    what kind of missiles F-16s can launch at Mach 1.5 and at high altitude?

    All available in manual

    in reply to: The performance of MiG-29 #2150718
    garryA
    Participant

    . However all 4th gen aircraft will sustain turns best around M0,85. This is due above this speed some pocket regions of start to become supersonic, much reducing the both lift capability and efficiency. Optimum point being a tad slower or faster doesn’t change this rule of nature.

    Except F-14 , i think
    https://s18.postimg.org/9le4m5yl5/VKK60_YS_1.png

    Even on the horizontal, 3,7 deg/s turn rate difference will not make anyone win a dogfight.

    That seem like alot TBH

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2151996
    garryA
    Participant

    peculiar of the F-22 is not more possible due to advance in radar technologies and you take it as a complete rebuttal of stealth as a technology..

    There nothing peculiar about operation of F-22 as opposed to F-35 or B-2. They all do the same thing.

    About noozle, all new stealth planes, that will enter service years after the F-22 production is ceased feature round nozless, not the square one of the F-22A i.e. something less efficient..

    Each design is a question of cost vs capabilities. Either you choose cheaper aircraft and have more of them. Or aircraft with better characteristics but have less of them.About the nozzle, the spike design of round nozzle such as the F-35 LOAN nozzle is said to be able to reduce both IR and RCS ( may be slightly lesser in capability compared to square nozzle )signature while thrust doesn’t seem to be affected. Since F-35 doesn’t have T/W that high compared to F-22 , that possibly the reason why they choosed LOAN design instead of square one. T-50 is emphasize more on kinematics so that probably why it have round nozzle. BothJ-20 and J-31 suffered from having weak engine , so every percentage of thrust matter, hence round nozzle

    Again is not about having RCS (and IR) reduction features, is about having how much in relation to cost, performance degradation, ease of maintenance

    Which is the economic problem rather than about the aircraft itself .

    About the bomber same, I though there are still US fighters in both UK and Germany, just not F-22A.
    So back to the N°1 question, why an air superiority plane designed to penetrate into enemy aereospace is not positioned near there but in Hawai and Alaska? It so important to estabilish air superiority over Chukotka (or Cuba, for Florida’s ones)? Or are they actually performing the opposite mission instead i.e. waiting for bomber to come?

    Alright, look at this.Here is F-35 combat radius ( which is already bigger than F-22 combat radius). And there are various factor that can decrease those number too such as longer loiter time , longer combat afterburning time and so on.
    http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt271/SpudmanWP/000a3eea.jpg

    Here is the world map
    http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-political-map.jpg

    So you can see that there are many place that F-35 , F-22 still cannot reach even if you put them in German or UK.Spreading them around would mean your fighters force is very thin , very small number in each area. That why they want PCA which can follow the bomber any where.

    In every case there is a discrepancy when you say that stealth fighter would adress the issue of enhanced AD radar capability by using stand-off weapon while bombers, that can carry way greater payloads would instead try to phisically penetrate enemy airspace.

    You need to look at how big some country is. Even with standoff weapon , you cannot cover the whole country .Nor that it would mean you will be able to locate any targets at any point inside the country territory without flying inside.Ground surface to missiles sites take measure to make themselves harder to detect too. And by standoff weapon on stealth fighter , i dont mean they need weapon that have 1000-2000 km range , i meant weapon that can out range enemy detection range when jamming has been taken into account. Take for example : if your new radar can track stealth aircraft from 200 km. With its jammer , it can reduced that range by 1/2. That mean a weapons with range of only 100 km would be considered as good weapon for stealth aircraft while that would been insufficient for conventional aircraft.

    Ah, and we were talking about C (metric) band radar anyway.

    Which is less effective in address stealth problem

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2152055
    garryA
    Participant

    Early warning radar, the various updated or new acquisition long range coverage C band radar everyone in the East(Russia, China ,Iran and their satellites) are producing and/or buying like crazy. We can stay there years to debate what is their exact efficacy against stealth but surely they have enough to justify those acquisition.

    lower frequency radar or more powerful radar have ability to detect stealth aircraft from greater distance. No doubt about that.That why they are bought in the first place. However, as stated earlier the point of stealth is to give you ability to attack adversary before being attacked. So while more modern radar ( especially SAM radar) can detect stealth aircraft from greater distance. Stealth aircraft’s sensor and weapons also improve overtime, so they can detect/ attack those target from longer distance too.Then there are jammer on those stealthaircraft too. Unless, those radar can out range both sensor and weapons of F-22, I dont see they negate the point of stealth.

    Certainly, or better said all those peculiar ecquipment that just F-22 has when compared to ALL others 5gen planes, in order to fulfill their intended role look as an example to the peculiar 2D exhaust,that not any other stealth plane has, they were introduced to lower the rear RCS andthe IR emission or the HOBS system that allow them to operate at a far greater quote than usual (and were cause of two mortal accidents). Now what it was the one that made the coast roar so much , serviceability falls so down and have made lose so many time in development to determinate the stop of production, we could take additional years to debate but it’s happened.

    The nozzle of F-35 reduced IR and RCS too ( same can be said about J-20 nozzle)
    PAK-FA has 3D TVC ( it is called thrust vector control not High off boresight system )
    So certainly , those peculiar equipment are not useless. They may think that it better to have more aircraft with a bit lesser characteristics instead of small number of aircraft with slightly superior characteristics. Quantity has quality of its own.

    The last one is frankly something i heard for the first time, so now they cannot just put some fuel tanks on them or make them start from an allied base near to the objectives?
    It is quite simple, once the bombers passes near to Uk or Iceland you made your F-22, ehm …F-15 take off and escort them to the last part of the run.
    .

    To begin with, even with fuel tanks their range of fighter is not that far compared to strategic bomber . Moreover, with external fuel tank you throw aways stealth. Then there is also element of surprise, it will take time to move stealth aircraft to Allien base close to target, that may or may not be available. And what if you want to strike deep inside adversary territory ?..etc and so on.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2152426
    garryA
    Participant

    It means being able to stay there without being identified and located by enemy radars systems so to even avoid enemy interceptor planes to even take off without being immediately targeted instead of just enter into enemy airspace (i.e. deep beneath of the battle front) as an escort to attack planes and leave immediately after.
    Now situation is such that no matter how stealth a plane is, it would be at least spotted by enemy EW radars so the initial tactics wouldn’t be possible anymore and for second one there is not the necessity of having the all aspect stealth level of F-22.

    I dont quite understand what exactly do you want to say with ” EW radar ” ???? Do you mean ELINT system ? In that case most F-22 can always stay silent ( because you only 1 aircraft transmit and information can be shared ) , If by EW radar you mean low frequency early warning radar, those things have existed ways before F-22 even exist, their limitation still exactly the same ( poor accuracy , big size ).And stealth aircraft dont need to be completely invisible , it only need to be deny enemy ability to attack it.

    Because it’s true that any of actual fighters , 4 of 5 gen try to increment RCS in every direction, it is not that someone leave a side purpose intact, so to help enemy, it’s that in the frontal part you invest one and get ten, in the rear part just the contrary.
    So, while the other 5 gen fighter somewhat accepted to have a part in which their stealth lvl is somewhat inferior, for phisycal limits, not for carelessness, F-22 is more similar to F-117 and B-2 on that regard trying to achieve the maximum possible level of RCS reduction in any direction, no matter the price to pay, both in terms of money that of performances.
    Problem is that while the other two are subsonic bombers, F-22 is to retain over-the-edge flying performance anyway, so explosion of cost, serviceability problems, cut in not essential ecquipment that make in the end thing just worse and so on.

    I really struggle to get your point here, so you think all aspect stealth is what make F-22 costly ?

    Now, we can argue until the end of world about how much the F-22 has matched the aspectatives but the same fact that they first planned to keep F-15C still in service for almost 12-15 years and after have launched something called PENETRATION COUNTER AIR made almost clear that:
    -There is a problem, a big one I would dare to say if they are planning to extend the operative life of 30+ year old frames.
    – Where the problem lied and what they want to get back (unless they put random names to their programs).

    The problem is they dont have enough F-22, the fleet is too small. And the penetrating counter air has completely different role from F-22. They are to escort things like B-2 , B-3 a role that neither F-35 or F-22 can do. Not because they dont have enough ” stealth ” but because they dont have enough range.

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2152806
    garryA
    Participant

    Failed to meet the aspectative into being able to stay for a long time inside enemy controlled territory, so to perform an offensive air superiority role

    What make you think F-22 cannot stay for long time in enemy territory ? How do you even defined long here ?

    as even it possessing a 360° RCS reduction instead to just a frontal aspect one

    Firstly, the frontal aspect RCS of all stealth fighter are always the lowest because regardless of kind that always the most desirable direction. Secondly, all stealth fighters (B-2 , F-22 , F-35 , J-20 …etc ) have RCS reduction from all aspect , not just frontal. Both F-119 and F-135 equiped with radar blocker to shield the turbine when aircraft is being illuminated from tail aspect (that being said by how small their RCS at tail/side aspect compare to conventional platform is up to debate )

    in reply to: USAF not F-35 thread #2152983
    garryA
    Participant

    perform offensive air superiority missions i.e.enter and stay deep into heavily defended enemy territory for what the F-22 was designed forth but faided
    .

    what do you mean by it failed ?

Viewing 15 posts - 496 through 510 (of 948 total)