The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber was based on a design by Dr. Kurt Tank, Focke-Wulf’s main engineer, famous for the Focke-Wulf Ta-152 aircraft built for Germany during WWII. First flight 1961. 125 were built. Saw action against PAF in 1971. In service thorugh 1986. This plane intended simple maintainance for poor technology air bases, and suitable mechanism for high altitude air bases. Real low flying aircraft. Aerodynamically and technically sound design but never able to break projected Mach 2 due to being underpowered (2 Rolls-Royce Bristol 703 Orpheus)
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Aircraft/Marut1.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Aircraft/Marut2.htmlSome relation to Egyptian Helwan HA-300, a Messerschmitt design (shared engine development).
http://www.angelfire.com/nb/eaf/ha300.html
Thanks for the info and to those who replied.
This really is an interesting plane. Seems to me there should be a museum for planes like this which never quite made it. There would be candidates from all over the globe, no doubt!
Thanks both for that.
A strange-looking, compromise bird.
That’s interesting.
So how ‘cheap’ do 4 star hotels run to in Oslo, then..?
That’s interesting.
So how ‘cheap’ do 4 star hotels run to in Oslo, then..?
I find the ground to air missile sale to Iran very disturbing. It’s as if there is a deliberate attempt to be provocative…
Took me by surprise, but here is the confirmation as a proposal!
Absolutely fascinating – but I don’t buy it for a minute with the weight considerations involved.
There were also, apparently, ‘proposals’ for a VTOL version and other flights of fancy – so I think it has to be seen in this context.
Jolanta,
Take a step back and ask yourself the following questions:-
Why was the project cancelled in the first place?
When was the F-111 proposed aand what was the state of THAT project at the time?In answer to the first the TSR2 was ostensibly cancelled as it was more economical to cancel, pay damages to BAC and order an equivlent number of F-111Ks from the US than to pursue the TSR programme at current cost projections to service introduction.
However look at the state of play of the F-111 programme at the time, it was already running late, over budget and encountering very critical inlet/ engine issues which was adding time and cost to that programme.
Whilst this was not ‘public knowledge’ it was known in the industry by the RAF and the Government at the time the F-111K was mooted as a viable replacement aircraft.
Now the adamant assertion by the Treasury and the Civil Servants that the F-111 was going to offer significant savings to the UK tax payer were even then threatened by the issues facing the F-111.
It would have been unacceptable to any Government, faced with an increasing financial commitment to the F-111…to be forced into cancallation with, in storage a UK alternative which had flown, which had proven its capabilities. Any other alternative (in this case the F-4K) would have been greeted with a level of scepticism that was entirely appropriate and a UK only solution would have been sought…especially one that was already amortised to a significant extent…
To be proven wrong in such a fundamental fashion was a risk no Government was prepared to accept and did everything to reduce the risk. This included the removal of any option ot recommence the programme in an economical fashion. The destruction of the physical means to build the craft as well as the paper information that would permit a restart were part of that risk reduction.
Remember also that whilst it was a Labour Government who actually cancelled the TSR2, the Conservative Government prior to them offered no cast iron guarantees that the programme would be continued. Pressure was mounting from the Chief of Staff and even from the RAF to cancel. Certainly Geo Edwards had no illusions about the chances of the TSR entering service.
With that wider vision it becomes clear that the only logical explanation for the wholesale removal of the means to restart the programme is the real fear that the proposed replacement was going to be found wanting and that the restarting of this previously too expensive programme was then discovered to offer the most financially advantageous solution to the issue…..
Very convincing. There’s weight to much of what you say. On the other hand, I seem to recall that ‘buying British’ was actually quite a powerful thing in those days.
Are we not talking of the World Cup era, ‘Backing Britain’ etc etc? – this does not seem to sit too squarely with all the conspiracy theories and to me the whole thing smacks more of bungling and ****-up. We had a few before and we’ve had a few since, from governments of all colours.
If you read Peter Wrights Spycatcher pages 361 to 372 and MI5’s thoughts on Harold Wilson and a few other Labour ministers at that time, and the penetration by the KGB of the labour party in the 60s it all makes perfect sense, was Wilson carrying out orders from Moscow, a lot of people in MI5 thought so, plus Louis mountbatten R. Bl**dy N. going over to Oz and telling them
that for every TSR2 they buy they could get 5 Buccaneers:mad:
The page numbers will tend to vary, of course, depending on which edition you buy. It’s rather like saying ‘Shakespeare says on page 12 of Othello…’
It seems the argument has now turned from being something ’embarrassing’ into a full-on, Moscow-driven, communist plot.
I’m genuinely interested in the TSR2 business and I recall those days fairly well. It would be nice to arrive at a satisfactory explanation… but, as far as political plots go, it actually turns out that Harold Wilson was being actively plotted against by right wing members of his own security service…
So maybe it was they who arranged all this, hoping to deal him a political blow. How’s that for a conspiracy theory..?
To be honest I couldn’t give a monkey’s whether you ‘accept’ the idea or not.
Moggy
Ah, a truly enlightening and useful contribution, if ever I saw one. I don’t recall offering any similar rudeness to anyone here. Is this how you expect to win debates triumphantly?
Though developed as a private venture, the Gnat fighter (designed by Teddy Petter – previously responsible for the Westland Whirlwind…
It was also proposed as a parasite fighter/strike fighter for carriage (in threes!) under a Vulcan V-bomber.
I thought Sikorsky was responsible for the Whirlwind!
The bit about a Vulcan managing to carry 3 Gnats is also more than somewhat gobsmacking – are you sure..?
Gnat,it was never used as a fighter by the British Royal Air Force (RAF), it did achieve success with the RAF in its “Gnat T.1” trainer version, as well as wide recognition as the mount for the RAF Red Arrows aerobatic team.
The Gnat also achieved export success, particularly with India, which was the largest user of the Gnat and manufactured the aircraft under license. In fact, Indians found the Gnat so capable that they designed and built their own improved version, the “Ajeet”.
Presumably it was a private venture initially as a fighter, then.
I seem to recall that it achieved significant things against allegedly much superior birds like F104s in the Indo-Pakistani wars… or maybe my memory is letting me down…?
Ethnic cleansing – when else did ministry officials turn up to watch jigs being broken up?
My point is that both you and foxy are putting your own gloss on what happened and I STILL cannot see what political gain there would have been – or, for that matter, what ’embarrassment’ – in a future government restarting the programme. Explain that one to me satisfactorily and I’ll accept the idea.
I was an apprentice at the then Hawker aircraft factory at Ham, near Kingston when the TSR2 programme was stopped. All the centre fuselage jigs were parked at the back of the hangers and protected with lanolin grease.Some time later the “the men from the ministry” came down to witness the jigs being cut up. Thereby avoiding any later,embarrassing, resurrection of the programme should a different government get into power. That would have been in the early 60’s
A few seconds googling turns up the fact that it was cancelled in 1965.
So the men from the ministry told you that, did they…they were making sure that there would be no later, ‘ embarrassing resurrection of the programme’..?
Lightning (climb rate and perfection in its role… years ahead of its time)
TSR2 (looks, looks and looks again…. even if it didn’t make it into production)
Harrier (class of its own and hugely underrated by its own country of origin)
Thought I’d put in a non-pc, British boost as an antidote to all the US and Soviet love-in going on above…
Still don’t see what the political gain would have been.
Politicians (of whatever colour) rarely do things that don’t carry a benefit for themselves.