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Rii

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  • in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2273937
    Rii
    Participant

    I would be interested in why you think a single platform for an Airforce consisting of 75-100 airframes is a foolish notion?

    Because it means that at some point in the future the nation’s entire air combat capability will be approaching obsolescence simultaneously — and will have become only marginally competitive well before that. And unlike the Hornets in 2020, when it happens with the F-35 the strategic environment is going to be positively ugly. By operating multiple platforms staggered at ~15 year intervals one avoids this highly dangerous situation.

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2273948
    Rii
    Participant

    An F-15AU mmmm would be interested in how that would work ? How survivable do you think it would be compared to the F-35 up against the might of the Soviet and Chinese future stealth fighters?

    The whole point of a hypothetical F-15AU acquisition was not buy into this foolish notion of one platform to suffice for the next 40 years. Rather ~45 airframes would have been acquired to (1) replace the F-111s and (2) allow for load-balancing of the Hornet fleet to extend the service life of the platform to the mid-2020s, whereupon the next tranche of combat capability would be inducted.

    I would also be guessing that the RAAF would have a few issues operating with allies in an airframe designed in the late 60’s, no matter how much you upgrade the systems ?

    Well I don’t know, you might have to ask USAF about that — their F-15Cs aren’t going anywhere till the 2030s, to say nothing of the F-15Es which will soldier on for a decade beyond that. And of course Japan, Singapore and Korea all operate F-15s as well, the latter two being recent deliveries. Umm, which other allies were you thinking of, exactly?

    Oh and then there are other trivial things to take into account as well like force construct, doctrine, conops etc. And that does not just impact on the RAAF, it impacts on Navy and Army and Defence as a whole, it puts decades of planning out the door?

    You mean to suggest that Defence planned for decades to arrange that Australian airpower would hit its lowest ebb at precisely the moment of our greatest strategic vulnerability? Christ, there’s incompetence and then there’s treason!

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274169
    Rii
    Participant

    We are talking about 36 fighters “only”, in terms of the AF. It’s not the same as India with more than 100 fighters

    In the long-run I suspect the Brazilian deal is about as important as the Indian deal, if not moreso. Those 36 aircraft are likely to be only an initial order. In addition to a potential follow-on order from the Air Force, there’s the future Brazilian carrier to consider; moreover, we know that tech transfer plays as large a role in this deal as it did in the Indian. Whoever secures this contract will be in the front-seat for assisting in Brazil’s transformation into a global power*. I further suspect that the strategic significance of and long-term considerations associated with this deal have a part to play in its seemingly endless delays.

    * France has the obvious advantage here of already being deeply involved in that endeavour, extending to items of strategic and symbolic significance such as nuclear submarines. Ofc there’s the possibility that Brazil may seek to balance its reliance on foreign support as India has done, but I haven’t seen much evidence that this is part of Brazilian thinking. And ofc the obvious candidate for an alternative supplier — the United States — does not welcome the rise of Brazil, whereas France and China do (largely because it undermines American power and influence in the western hemisphere) and thereby bolsters their own relative positions.

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2274175
    Rii
    Participant

    ^

    Don’t forget the F119s. 😎

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2274180
    Rii
    Participant

    What an absolute load of rubbish, this is what happens when the country has and idiot as Defmin who has shown a blatant disregard for advice from all three services for political point scoring and bugetary measures for the sake of the Governments lie of a promise for a surplus.

    If it weren’t for the foolish F-35 decision (and its accompanying, equally foolish ‘one platform’ mantra) there would’ve been no need for ‘interim’ aircraft when the program was delayed and a real replacement for the F-111 (i.e. F-15AU) could’ve been procured instead. And if there were no interim Super Hornets, they couldn’t very well be made permanent with more now under consideration, could they?

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274273
    Rii
    Participant

    Fortunately I’m spared most of hopsalot‘s drivel but yes, ‘anti-American’ has always been a fairly absurd criticism. It’s an accusation usually leveled at someone who is making far too much sense, as in “hey guys, have you considered the merits of not invading Afghanistan?” In this case what we are discussing is retiring — as opposed to upgrading at significant expense — ageing platforms that’re entirely unnecessary to the national security of the United States, thereby freeing up funds to be used on programs that are important, or on health/education/etc. or even on paying down the national debt. And this is apparently ‘anti-American’.

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274336
    Rii
    Participant

    It’s not going to be squeezed by F/A-XX because they are not replacing the same aircraft.

    Well I’m assuming that at some point USAF/USN is going to realise that they don’t need numbers, but rather range and payload, and switch to ordering F/A-XX in place of F-35 as soon as practicable. On a related note, no doubt size will be the point of contention in the otherwise obvious move to unite the SH/F-15E/F-22 replacement programs: USAF is likely to want an aircraft too large to be operated from a carrier.

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274363
    Rii
    Participant

    hahaha I’m sure the F/A-XX is already on the drawing board, and the US will pull it of the hat when it becomes clear the F35 is a huge POS aimed at sucking european R&D budgets, which it did brilliantly, with some arms twisting and other blackmailing & a couple murders for good measure.

    Nic

    One thing that is certain is that F-35s window of opportunity is now going to be quite small — perhaps a decade — squeezed by F/A-XX on the one side and UCAVs on the other. Not only can the US not afford a 1:1 replacement for all the existing aircraft it is foolishly spending even more money on in denial of that fact, but when the time comes many of those replacements won’t be F-35s at all. In practice it will be more of a ‘make do’ program than Super Hornet was — albeit entirely unintentionally.

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274375
    Rii
    Participant

    Where did you get that from???

    The A-10 & F-15C won’t belong anywhere near a modern battlefield in the 2030/40 timeframe

    Ergo, irrelevant and can and should be retired by 2020. You could even pump the money saved into additional F-35 production if you like. :rolleyes:

    If you do not continually invest in newer tech then your power projection & defensive capabilities go away.

    Well obviously, which is why programs such as X-47B, F/A-XX, LRS, etc. are so important. F-35, on the other hand, is not so important — not in any rational priority scheme that serves the broader national interest.

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274396
    Rii
    Participant

    Well I’m glad we are at least in agreement that a large proportion of USAF combat aircraft, past, present and future, are a complete waste of taxpayer’s money, and could be retired to no ill effect.

    in reply to: Dassault Rafale #14 – News & Discussion #2274433
    Rii
    Participant

    An amusing claim given that USAF plans to operate far less advanced F-15Cs and A-10s into the 2030s precisely because its intended successor aircraft is both late and too expensive, to say nothing of the Super Hornets still rolling off the assembly line for USN for the same reasons.

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2274530
    Rii
    Participant

    RAAF Super Hornets are for long term:Smith
    December 13, 2012 6:13PM

    The RAAF’s 24 Super Hornets will play a key role in Australia’s defences for the foreseeable future.

    THE RAAF’s 24 Super Hornet aircraft, plus possibly another 24, are set to play a central role in Australia’s air defences for the foreseeable future.

    This is what happens when you swallow Power Point presentations hook, line and sinker, and subsequently opt for the path of the least resistance instead of considering the long-term national interest.

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2275138
    Rii
    Participant

    In the here and now it is a respectable combination of state of the art defence technology!

    What does the here and now have to do with anything? In the here and now our vanilla Hornets are entirely adequate to their taskings. The F-35s Australia is acquiring will serve as our primary airborne combat asset through at least the 2050s. In that time it will witness the complete upheaval of Australia’s strategic environment. Your suggestion to ignore the future implications of decisions made in the present is grossly irresponsible.

    If you direct your entire defence procurement policy based on the possible threat of China and Indonesia in the 2040’s then you are in a very strange paranoid place.

    Directing military procurement with an eye to the security of the nation in a sea of massive global and regional change is precisely what should be done. The fact is that Australia’s future strategic environment does not at all resemble that which we have enjoyed since 1945.

    Does Indonesia or China even want a fight with Australia?

    It doesn’t matter what they want now — times change. And conflicts are rarely so simple as one nation ‘wanting a fight’ with another one.

    To be sure, management of international relations is as important — or more — to national security than the military side of things. And that is why I support the gradual dampening down of our strategic alliance with the United States, and the adoption of a position of armed strategic neutrality. So long as we are joined at the hip to the United States, any adverse developments between China and the United States necessarily involve us. There is no reason for Australia to involve itself in the great power game of the 21st century, and much risk in doing so.

    To be honest I think you are over egging Indonesian capabilities now and in the future.

    Jut because you don’t hear about Indonesia on the nightly news… :rolleyes:

    Indonesia’s GDP May Overtake Germany, UK by 2030, McKinsey Says

    Indonesia may surpass Germany and the UK by 2030 to be the world’s seventh-largest economy, generating $1.8 trillion in annual sales for investors in consumer and energy industries by that year, McKinsey & Co. said.

    The country may add 90 million people to its “consuming class” in that period, the most after China and India, the consulting company said in a report today.

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2275455
    Rii
    Participant

    You haven’t been hanging out with that loony Carlo Kopp have you Rii?

    That must be why I disagree with Airpower Australia’s major historical talking points, namely the proposed F-111 modernisation and the proposed F-22 acquisition. And I place a greater emphasis on Australian sovereignty and strategic neutrality rather than embedding ourselves within a US-centric security network. But sure, there are certain points on which we agree — namely that F-35 is dumb — and we share a basic skepticism of the current national security apparatus. If that makes me a Kopp-zombie in your eyes, suit yourself.

    Super Hornet, F-35, Wedgetail and KC-30 is a pretty potent combination regionally.

    For the 2020s when the threat board is still mostly green and Australia secure under the American umbrella, sure. For the 2040s when China is the dominant regional power and Indonesia the dominant power in Australia’s immediate environment, not so much.

    Considering the F-35 has barely entered service and is a long way off from full operational capability it is a bit much to write it and those other types off as a potentially fatal mistake or non-competative and start wishing for an as of yet un-designed alternative in 17 years.

    The basic qualities of the aircraft are fixed and thus amenable to long-term analysis. The long-term view is often upsetting to those who don’t wish to hear of it. And yet the basic trends are often visible many decades in advance and far less uncertain than most folks would like to suppose. Witness the eerily prescient writings of Jack London in the early 1900s, who predicted not only that Japan would rise to challenge the west, but that it would fail in the attempt, and moreover that its lasting legacy would be in awakening the nation that would prove the real downfall of western — including American — supremacy: China. Note that he was writing of the end of American supremacy long before most folks were prepared to acknowledge that it was even coming!

    And of course it’s not only unimportant folk who perceive and remark upon such long-range developments, to no avail. From Kiderlen-Wächter, the German foreign minister in 1912:

    “Does Europe not hear the rumbling noises coming from the Asian continent, where a race which has been asleep for a long time begins to stretch its limbs and will eventually rise and advance against distant objectives, against the Occident? Is it deaf to the ferment of the American soil which is young still, and to the roar of its machines?”

    (And hence the pressing need for Germany to make the play for dominance of the European molehill sooner rather than later.)

    Meanwhile, an illustration of Australian strategic thought in 2012:

    http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5493/gillardandobamafailinga.jpg

    /sigh

    in reply to: F35 debate thread- enter at your own risk. #2275490
    Rii
    Participant

    If it meets the requirement then what is the problem?

    The requirement is wrong. This is an aircraft conceived in the 1990s (based largely upon thinking predating that) that will serve until (at least) the 2050s. It will witness transformations in both technology and geopolitics no less significant than that which obtained from 1890 to 1950. It is not the right platform, at the right price, at the right time. Super Hornet, Gripen, Typhoon and Rafale are that. An evolved F-16 would’ve been that. X-47B, nEUROn, F/A-XX, LRS are that. F-35 is not that, and at a trillion dollars the misstep is an epic one.

    For Australia the misstep is a potentially fatal one: it will leave us with an increasingly non-competitive platform over precisely the same timeframe as the ability of the United States to guarantee Australia’s security is increasingly called into question. What we should be looking at is inducting a high-end platform in the 2030s (F/A-XX or the European equivalent) but the F-35 acquisition rules that out entirely.

Viewing 15 posts - 2,566 through 2,580 (of 3,311 total)