I saw it too. Hizbollah says a F-16 was shot down but Israel is saying the thing falling down is a package of propaganda pamphlets.

To me it doesn’t like like a box of pamphlets but it doesn’t look like a plane shot down either. Maybe a small UAV?

Obviously small obscure ethnic groups which have a few thousand members don’t deserve their own country. But large ethnic groups certainly do, and the Jews certainly qualify.

And everyoen seems to be forgetting the fact that Israel did used to belong to the Jews a long time ago. Even if you don’t believe in the Bible, the facts are clear. If it was alright for the Arabs to kick the Jews out hundreds of years ago, then it is alright for the Jews to kick out the Arabs today.

Blaming Israelis for excessive force or whatever is a legitimate argument, but claiming that Israel’s very existence is what provokes the Muslims is another thing. And at least the Israelis developed the land they got into a modern state, under the Arabs it would have just remained as big a ****hole as other Arab lands are.

I’m confused by the extreme support of Israel by some Americans. On the forums on http://www.freerepublic.com people are calling for the US to give free equipment to the Israelis and some people even want the US to fight the war for Israel.

I didn’t notice Jewish population trying to establish an independant state in Germany but I might have missed something.

Maybe they should have. All people deserve their own country.

The Israeli presence is a reason for ALL conflicts in the area, including the invasion to Lebanon. Without saying whether it (ergo the Israeli presence) is wrong or right, this is the truth..

That’s like saying the Jewish presence in Europe was the reason for the Holocaust. Or the Armenian presence in Turkey was the reason for the Armenian genocide.

The simple fact is that neither Muslims nor Jews know how to build successful prosperous nations. Look at every Muslim country, it’s a craphole. Look at Israel, it’s only successful because of massive aid from the US and extorting “reparations” from Germany (how much longer will that continue?). What needs to be done is that we Christians need to take over the entire middle east and show those barbarians the benefits of Christian western culture.

Which is what I said earlier…about 10 years is when they can start looking for new procurements. Strangely I was wrong when I said it earlier…

No one here was saying that Serbia would buy new aircraft today. We were all saying it woudl happen in the future, like after 2010. And you said no it would never happen.

By the way, 2015 isn’t when they will start looking for a new multirole jet, 2015 is when they want to already have it in service, because that is when the Mig-29’s will last until.

So…whats missing from this list??

No G-4Ms, no TV or laser guided weapons…and look…no M-2001…the modernization of M-84 is said as comm and fire control systems.

Hmm…isn’t this what I said earlier as well?? M-2001 is an export model which can’t and won’t be introduced in Serbian service…for one simple reason that its mostly a Russian upgrade? And strangely I was wrong back then too…

Most of those things are still on the agenda. The interview mentioned TV guided and laser guided weapons, which in turn implies some kind of G-4 modernization. The M-84 modernization they are refering to most likely is the M-2001, as it is very unlikely they would start another upgrade program for that tank when they already have one waiting to be implemented. The Lasta 95 was also mentioend that it is continuing development (almost done) and should enter service soon. Things are turning out exactly as I predicted.

Lets look at these numbers. At 2.4% of GDP…Serbia will spend far more on defense as a precentage than any of its neighbours.

2.4% is less than all countries surrounding Serbia spend, except for Albania and Hungary. Greece and Turkey spend around 5%. 2.4% is around the European average, or maybe even below it.

But lets figure this much…Austria bougth 18 Eurofighters for the pricetag of nearly 2 billion dollars! Thats twice as much…so in real terms if Serbia SAVED that 1 billion dollars for the next 12 years and sepnd it on absolutely nothing at all…they’d still be able to afford only about 9 Eurofighters.

The Austrian deal no doubt included things like a training/spares/maintainenance/repair package for several decades into the future. These are all things that Serbia doesn’t have to buy. Historically, when Yugoslavia bought aircraft, it bought just the aircraft and the weapons and nothing else.

With the problem that if the Libyan deal goes through…that means that Serbia will in fact be selling ALL its remaining G-4s to Libya…not leaving any for modernization for the Serbian AF.

I think the assumption is that the G-4 sale to Lybia would require the production line restarted.

It mentions that F-16,Mig-29,Gripen and Eurofighter will be considered,although i am of the oppinion that the last one is extremely expensive for us and is unrealistic.

Hmmm “tvrde poznavaoci”. So these 4 planes mentioned above are not necessarily the planes being considered by the military itself, they are just what some “experts” think are the likely candidates.

The new multirole jet they want in 2015 will be brand new, right? Production of the F-16 will cease before 2015 so I don’t know how they will get new F-16’s, and even if they do, how smart is it to purchase a plane which will no longer be supported by the country that makes it? Not to mention that the F-16 joined the USAF in the late 70’s so it will be 40 years old in 2015. And if they are considering the EF2000, then why not the Rafale also? I think these experts don’t know what they’re talking about.