Alpha BravoSEEMS. That’s the right word. There’s no proof whatsoever HE did ordered it, regardless of what the various warmongers in the US and elsewhere scream, desperately looking for another war. Chances are high this allegation is as true a Saddam’s WMDs in 2003.
Since you obviously know much more than anyone else, maybe you could enlighten us as to who was responsible for the chemical attack that killed hundreds of people? Maybe the Russian’s are right, it’s just some elaborate conspiracy by the rebels that hasn’t worked. And I would hardly call Obama a war monger, given his indecisiveness and going back on his own “red line” and asking congress to vote on it, knowing full well he’ll lose. He’s looking for any excuse not to drag the US into yet another military intervention in the middle east.
As for the israelis, lame excuse, they are a far, FAR bigger threat to their neighbouring countries AND the world in general than any other ME country will ever be. What makes you think some of their own fanatics (you see them today as “settlers”, and in their government actively directing the ethnic cleansing of Palestine for example), rivaling in extremism the jihadists &co, won’t take over their country one day and decide to “bring Messiah” or whatever doomsday crap they “prepare” for, in the name of their god? If Syria or Iran can’t have WMDs because of the threat they pose, neither should Israel, all THREE should not have WMDs.
I agree, in an ideal world the Israelis wouldn’t have WMDs either, but the extreme scenario you’ve painted in unlikely given the stronger controls, security and stability of the country as a whole. Of course, we can’t predict the future, but there’s unlikely to be a collapse of Israeli society in the near future, similar to what we’ve seen in more authoritarian, corrupt and fragmented countries of the middle east. There are specific reasons behind the events that are happening in the Arab states, which are absent from Israel.
As for Syria, you can see the abject double games the warmongering groups (especially US ones) play. While the dominant news is all about the possible avoidance of a war by having the syrian chemical weapons put under international control, in other (much more obscure) new you have the US delivering directly weapons to these “rebels” ( actually all kinds of extremist jihadists- many or mostly foreign- as busy as killing each other as fighting against the syrian army). Just to fuel things further and just to maybe, just maybe push Assad and the russians to break off negotiations and give them a reason to attack anyway. They will find another reason though, i expect that any day now…
Seems like your mind is made up, no matter what happens, you’ll always have an axe to grind against the US/west for whatever reason. While I actually agree that the US/west shouldn’t be arming the “rebels”, which is running the same risk we experienced in Afghanistan in the 80s, I think an earlier, swifter and more decisive air campaign could have ended the Syrian conflict by now, similar to what we saw in Libya.
Alpha BravoIsraelis fired White Phosphorus munitions into Gaza city during the 2009 Gaza War (Operation Cast Lead).
Not really the same as using WMDs against civilians. Yes, I know, both are equally nasty and the outcomes are the same, i.e. dead civilians, but I don’t think you can compare with Halabja for example or the most recent example in Syria.
Alpha Bravo* how come the israelis are not given a week to put under international control THEIR chemical, biological and nuclear WMDs?
Because the Israelis have never used chemical, biological or nuclear weapons against unarmed civilians. Saddam used chemical weapons against Kurds in Halabja in early 80s, and now it seems Assad has used them against his own people too. I’m sure if the Israelis were to do the same, we would see a significant shift in US policy towards Israel.
Alpha BravoI don’t see anything ultra nationalistic about Teer’s post, even if he is overly pro-Indian generally.
In that case, you can include yourself in the list of ultra-nationalist fanboys who immediately respond whenever anyone says anything against their airforce/country, and in your case like JSR it’s the RuAF and Mother Russia, as demonstrated by your posts in this thread and others…
Whenever anyone levies any criticism against the likes of the IAF, PLAAF and RuAF, even when it’s perfectly valid and reasonable, we always get the ultra-nationalist fanboys like TR1, JSR, Teer and Goldust coming out of the woodwork to defend their nations honour, exchanging tit-for-tat posts line by line. It’s similar to when anyone mentions the JF-17 and/or Islam/Pakistan and PLA-MKII finding it upon himself to defend “his civilisation”.
All we need now is the contribution from the Islamists in the form of PLA-MKII, and the thread will be complete with nationalistic flag waving from most corners of the world.
Alpha BravoWhenever anyone levies any criticism against the likes of the IAF, PLAAF and RuAF, even when it’s perfectly valid and reasonable, we always get the ultra-nationalist fanboys like TR1, JSR, Teer and Goldust coming out of the woodwork to defend their nations honour, exchanging tit-for-tat posts line by line. It’s similar to when anyone mentions the JF-17 and/or Islam/Pakistan and PLA-MKII finding it upon himself to defend “his civilisation”.
Alpha BravoOr even worse “christians”, i am more offended by that. The world would be a much better place if the Vatican and Mecca and other similar “symbols” will be razed to the ground, preferably also every church, mosque etc. and immediately arrest ANY of these cardinals or ayatollahs or mullahs and so on that even suggest violence . The “flock ” should be ok in a few years once we knock some sense into them and have them see this world with different, opened eyes, rather that some supernatural creature’s “book” that lives on a cloud. Religion, especially in the 21st century, is a monstruous cancer to this planet.
I couldn’t agree more, and my sentiments exactly. It seems insane in the 21 century to take folk tales, legends and stories to be the word of God. I am always hoping that within the next few hundred years or so, mankind will have moved away from organised religion, but then again, it seems new religions are always popping up, like Scientology, which is just as absurd as believing the virgin birth and some carpenter from Galilee being the saviour for mankind.
Anyway, it seems Obama is wary of following Bush’s unilateral policies. Taking the case to congress buys more time to gain credence, both from the political viewpoint and from the UN weapons inspectors, giving them more time to present their findings. Despite all the geopolitical considerations, perhaps Obama is realising the futility of punitive airstrikes against Syria, considering it’s size, the number of potential WMD sites and Syrian air defences. Besides, the delay only gives the Syrians more time to disperse their weapons. If air power alone is to be used to prevent further use of chemical weapons in Syria, then only a sustained air campaign could come anywhere near that, something along the lines of the Iraqi no fly zone.
Alpha Bravothobbes, we “Islamists” are not as bad as you make us out to be. I didn’t like US policy, so I left, packed my bags, sold my stuff, my car, quit my job, wrote a colourful letter to the congress and just walked away. I certainly don’t ever intend to come back. Its strange how quickly men are willing to label others they don’t know or understand.
Very similar to how “Islamists”, in all their varied guises, label the entire Western world or “Kafirs”, i.e. “non-believers”.
Alpha BravoThey are in such a mess because of the “liberating” US wars in the last 2 decades ( which produced this exploding expansion of jihadists, AQ and so on) and the perpetuation of the palestinian issue since decades more. And if the damn americans and their ME puppets would not have started pouring weapons and jihadists into Syria in 2011, the revolution would have ended in a few weeks, which FAR lees damage and loss of life. But no, they and their stooges had all the interest to destroy that country, regardless of how many worthless “towelheads” (to them) will die.
We could argue for an eternity about the factors leading up to the current state of the Middle East and Muslim world, but the fact remains that in this age of globalisation, what happens half way across the world has a direct impact on other parts of the world. 9/11 was a brutal new example of that. I couldn’t really care less if the Shia and Sunni want to annihilate each other, but the sad fact is that there are direct consequences on other parts of the world. When a serving British soldier is brutally murdered in broad daylight a mere few miles from my home due to the twisted logic of an individual following a certain ideology, then the globalisation of “jihad” and it’s consequences is a direct concern to many people around the world.
Alpha BravoThe biggest concern should be the thousands of tourist that, even after unrealistic high casualties, are going to return home with dubious ideas when not traumatized or maimed.
Tourists?!
Alpha BravoJust what we need……….lets attack another Muslim country. sometimes I think its the US that needs a Coup.
If Muslim countries weren’t in such a mess, there wouldn’t need to be any intervention from anyone. Clearly the Middle East is currently going through some dramatic changes at the moment. For good or bad is anyone’s guess and only time will tell. In my view, the gravest concern is chemical weapons getting into the hands of extremist groups operating in Syria; the worst nightmare for the region and Europe, if not for the rest of the world. It’s not clear how things are likely to play out if punitive missile strikes do occur; all out conflict in the region with potentially Israel and Iran being dragged in at one extreme, or a slow but inevitable demise of the Assad regime at the other extreme. Either outcome is fraught with potential problems for the future.
Alpha BravoJF-17 a stable 8g aircraft, No-one else makes stable 8g fighters any longer, (it went out of fashion in the 80’s)
they are invariably unstable 9-10g aircraft.
Exceptions are F-35 & F-18E, both of which are primarily strikers,
with the latter also being carrier based, with the extra lead that comes with it.
Now you would’nt call JF-17 primarily a striker now would you ?
I’m not sure if it has ever officially been claimed to be an inherently stable design. It has stability augmentation in all three axis (analogue FBW in roll and yaw, and quadruplex digital in pitch). Why go through all that trouble if it’s a stable design?
Alpha BravoFrom all open sources and from interviews with people in the know, the JF-17 hardly uses any composite materials in its construction at all. Its a 3rd generation jet, built of conventional alloys and metals.
Chinese 3rd gen is equivalent to 4th gen. How much composite material does the current Block-1 model have in %?
Alpha BravoI’m fairly sure the stated length of JF-17 includes pitot tube and the stated width of JF-17 includes wingtip missiles.
JF-17 from PT-04 onwards doesn’t use a pitot tube in the nose. It uses a distributed air data system comprising a number of sensors around the front fuselage.
Alpha BravoAlright, now that we’re done with the political wrant, can we discuss objectively…
That’s quite rich coming from you, given your historical trend to introduce politics, religion and Islam (as well as the JF-17) into virtually every thread.
Alpha BravoNeither… 🙂
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