VoyTechah thanks guys.. i tried one of the translators online and pulled something along the lines that it might be restored to airworthy.. something to look forward to i guess!
The exact quote is:
The aeroplane crashed into marshy area. The fuselage penetrated into the ground 2-4 metres deep. It has been buried there for 60 years. But this seemed to be a good prognostic for the Halifax remains. It was hoped that the machine may have been preserved in quite good condition. Has this proved true, there would be a chance of reconstructing world’s fourth Halifax survivor. […] Unofficially, the newspaper managed to find out that in a huge dig out the historians managed to locate engine parts, pieces of the skin structure, undercarriage legs, and other remains. ‘We have found what we were looking for, but in worse condition than we had hoped for. Additionally, we have found something we had not expected, something very precious for us’ said Dr Piotr Śliwowski [of the Warsaw Uprising Museum].
No mention of restoring to airworthy, and I think even the mention of a chance of reconstructing world’s fourth Halifax survivor is a case of typical newspaper exagerration. When the Museum unveiled their Liberator mock-up earlier this year, many journalists described it as a restored example.
Also interesting how they’ve also mentioned the flight crew (as Arnold R. Blynn, George A. Chapman, Harold L. Brown, C. B. Wylie, Arthur G. W. Liddell, Frederick G. Wenham and Kenneth J. Ashmore) i’ve put the names down to help future forum searches.
The names are said to have been quoted from a memorial plaque in a nearby shrine at Odporyszow.
VoyTechIt’s certain.
It’s either certain nothing will happen if I can’t find someone prepared to act as either editor or lead author; likewise, if someone who’s prepared to do the work (there’s a lot of work, but nothing beyond someone who can manage to write a couple of pages couldn’t be up to…) it’s certain to happen!
I have a number of other book projects on the go, and while I’ve anticipated a gap turning up where I can work on a ‘for free’ project, they’ve all been filled with stuff that provides some income. Anyone in the writing game will know that’s a no choice choice. So, if someone’s prepared to say “I’ll have a bash at the bulk of the work” we will provide support and guidance, and there’s a number of people who’ve offered support (and if that’s you, your name is noted, and filed in the file…).
James, it looks like you have not seen the mail I sent you a moonth ago. Have you changed your e-mail address?
VoyTechYour translation is basically right, although the “Oak Forest” is in fact Dabrowa, a town in Southern Poland. The recovery work is done by people from the Warsaw Uprising Museum. The Museum already has a natural size wooden mock up of a Liberator, which includes recovered parts of one that crashed in Poland in August 1944. The Museum was also responsible for bringing Sally B to Warsaw last August.
VoyTechQD (Not sure what this means)
That’s a Lutwaffe map grid reference. Check there:
http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/jg26/gradnetz.htm
VoyTechMy retort to EN 830 ( nothing personal Rob)
Rob?
Ian, have I missed something?
VoyTechA necessary element of this research is getting to grips with the ‘Knights of the Air’ mythology – the notion that fighter pilots were the new generation of knights, upholding 19th century ideas of heroism and chivalry in war.
Are you sure the ‘Knights of the Air’ mythology was related to 19th century ideas? I would think it went further back.
I guess one aspect of the ‘chivalrous knights’ idea (on either side of the front line) was to accept that their opponents were as ‘knightly’. A real ‘knight’ would not fight chivalrously against an enemy who was not a gentleman, would he? That is probably why there wasn’t too much of this kind of mythology in WW2.
VoyTechMy father’s auntie was married to Stefan Manek part of the Polish flight crew on 1662 HCU Halifax II JN967.They had a daughter (my fathers cousin).I know after speaking to my father that very little information was known about the circumstances surrounding this crash.My dads cousin would be very interested if anybody has information about Stefan Manek ,ie his friends, relatives or anyone who knew him.
I was wrong in my earlier post: Sgt Sefan Manek 780277 was one of the two crew members who were buried on 18 November 1944.
He was born on 13 January 1922 in Warsaw. Having come to Britain in 1940, he was initially a fitter. He then volounteered to become a flight engineer. He underwent a course at 4 SoTT. In October 1944 he was posted to the Lancaster-equipped 300 (Polish) Sqn, and attached to 1662 HCU for conversion training.
I’m afraid that’s all I know about him. I wasn’t even able to locate a portrait photograph of him, unfortunately – would your Dad’s cousin have any?
VoyTechCapt. Roman Grzanka had lost one leg in a flying accident in SPAD-61 fighter in 1930s. During the war he got to Britain. He was a ferry pilot during 1940-41, and then volunteered for operational flying. He was posted in 1942 to the night fighting 307 (Polish) Squadron. He was killed in accident of Mosquito NF.II DD644 EW-Y on 27 June 1943.
On 18 April 1944 Spitfire VC EE643 PK-R crashed at Coolham while taking off. The aeroplane was going to be ferried away from 315 Sqn as the unit converted to Mustangs. The ferry pilot was 1st Officer R. G. Baker, and the accident card recorded ‘pilot had an artificial leg’.
VoyTechOn 15 June 1941 P-782237 Leon HAMPEL was found on the beach near Eastbourne, Sussex. He was a crew member of Wellington R1443 of 304 Squadron lost on 6 May 1941. It has been suggested he is still “missing”. If so, where did his body go to? Do you know where he is buried?
I’m ashamed to say that in my books he is also listed as missing. Do you know any details about the circumstances of his body being found ashore? I now that one member of the crew was buried in Holland, and another in the Polish Air Force cemetery at Newark-on-Trent.
Have looked in my copy of “Ksiega Lotnikow Polskich 1939-46” but cannot make much sense of the entry.
Perhaps you should acquire a copy of “KU CZCI POLEGLYCH LOTNIKOW 1939-1945”. Also in Polish, but some of the authors are available on-line…
I only mentioned CWGC as in the photo the headstones seemed to be of a common design.
Yes, the design is similar, but not the same. Anyway, I have noticed that British researchers are often confused when they can’t get any info on Polish Air Force graves from CWGC.
VoyTechNot to split hairs but the book I quote from in in my previous posting only mentions the half kill. No He 45 of the 4 used by the Luftwaffe is recorded as being shot down by any unit on any day of the fighting. But I know how awkward it must have been for the Polish Airforce to confirm kills at that time.
I stand to be corrected, however my source does tend to be correct a lot of the time. (Then again records can be wrong, aircraft can be misidentified etc, so I will keep an open mind)
Eric
No need to split hairs over books. Unlike the RAF, the Polish Air Force did establish official lists of victories credited to its fighter pilots in WWII. The original listings are easily accessible at the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum in London. Franciszek Pretkiewicz was credited with an He 45 destroyed on 3 September 1939 and half share of an He 111 on the 6th. Needless to say, credited victories in any air force don’t always match known losses of the opposing side. The ‘He 45’ may have been in fact a different type.
where is he buried? cant find any details on the CWGC site?
Polish Air Force members are not included in CWGC listings, because (contrary to a popular misunderstanding) PAF was not part of the RAF, but a separate air force, affiliated to RAF for operational purposes only.
VoyTechHave you looked into old threads, like this one?
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33661
VoyTechIts interesting to note that BL628 and AB803 were both transferred from No.401 Sqdn to 308FS on 5 August 1942 and both moved on the following week to No. 167 Sqdn at Castletown, Caithness.
As the 308th were based at Kenley from 2 August – 28 August 1942 one wonders why these transfers were made, both aircraft were only on charge for seven days and presumably did not see any action?
Perhaps they were indeed meant to go to 308 (Polish) Squadron but someone got the paperwork wrong? AB803 finally got there a year later…
A third aircraft, BM481, left No.401 Sqdn on the same day as BL628 & AB803
Could it have something to do with the fact that at the time no. 401 converted to Mk IXs, and quite a few (if not all) of its Mk Vs left the unit about that time, going different ways?
VoyTechHere is a potted history of BL628
Built at Castle Bromwich, Birmingham, 1942.
12MU, Jan. 1942.
401 RCAF, Gravesend, Feb. 1942 to become the regular mounto of G.B. Murray who named it Marion after his girlfriend, during this time credited with two Fw190`s damaged, one Fw190 destroyed.
308 Sqn, August 1942.
Ian, it’s not ‘308 Sqn’ (which would be a Polish unit) but 308th FS (a USAAF unit).
she’s an earlier model Spitfire – a converted Mk. III
My understanding was that BL628 was built as a Mk Vb and later had an arrestor hook added but was not fully converted to Seafire status. These aircraft are generally known as ‘hooked Spitfires’ so she remained a Mk Vb and still is today.
Mark, I believe Robert referred to the fact that BL628 was a serial number in a batch originally ordered as Mk IIIs (Spitfire IIIs), but changed to Mk Vs before they were actually built.
VoyTechThough recording of engine marks is a bit hap hazard, on accident cards I can find Merlin XX and Merlin 20 and also from the same time period Mk.X and Mk.10.
I am quite positive I have seen Spitfire V movement/accident cards with ‘Merlin XLV’ on them. I think I also saw Spitfire IX ones with ‘Merlin LXI’ or ‘LXIII’.
VoyTechYes, it represents Mk Vb, ER570, flown by Major Robert Levine in Tunisia, June 1943.
There’s a number of photos of the real thing in the book on American Spitfires (by P. Ludwig/M. Laird) published by Ventura some years ago.
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