Sure, exact numbers for empty weight, internal fuel (C and E models) plus MTOW would be nice 😉
Only a new development under German lead or F-35 are realistic options imho. Additional EFs are unlikely. They are not nuclear capable bombers. For the same reason, all other 5th gen programs are not an option.
While I’d prefer a new design, what are the chances the Germans can pull it of in time before the Tornados fall apart and on budget? Maybe it’s best to replace the Tornado fleet with F-35 in an F-4 like interim solution. And start working on a 6th gen EF replacement.
Btw, the Germans apparently want to re-introduce anti-ship capability against peer enemies… maybe the Marineflieger will operate jets again.
@ MSphere
6x GBU-10, 4x AIM-120C, 2x IRIS-T, 1x 1,000 liter EFT. That’s over 7,500 kg. If you replace AMRAAMs by Meteors and centreline fuel tank by a 1,500 liter version, you get another 620 kg, making the total loadout of almost 8,200 kg.
Not quite. Those are not GBU-10s, but UK Paveway II 1000 lb bombs. They’re 540 kg I think. Stations 2/12 and 4/10 don’t support 1000 kg stores, my guess is 750 kg tops. 1500 l tank doesn’t exist and if it would, it wouldn’t fit at the center station.
Heaviest load possible today is 1x 1000 l tank, 4x Meteor, 2x ASRAAM, 2x Taurus, 4x UK Paveway II. That’s ~1000 + 4x 185 + 2x 90 + 2x 1400 + 4x 540 kg or 6880 kg. Add a bit for pylons and ammo and you’re at around 7500 kg. 9000 kg might be theoritical with planned but never introduced 2000 l tanks and/or CFTs.
What it says there: Options are limited. Airchief Gruber mentioned the F-16 (rejected by the Austrian Army in 2002), Gripen (lost to EF in 2002) and the L-159NG.
Those are the alternatives to EF according to Airchief Gruber. Couple of points. 1st, replacing EF altogether is still unlikely imho. 2nd, L-159NG, what is that supposed to mean? No such thing exists, author probably got confused and meant L-39NG. But that’s purely a trainer, probably has been mentioned as candidate for S 105 replacement along with L-159 maybe. Even then L-39 would be a poor S 105 replacement, way to underpowered. L-159 might work but again, no replacement for a fighter.
S 105 replacement is also mentioned in the article. Options include a new trainer, but with only 15 EFs, a high performance trainer is needed as a supplement in the air policing role. M-346 and maybe L-159 come to mind. A lesser perfomance trainer like the L-39NG would be fine for pilot training, but would require more supersonic jets. More EFs are highly unlikely. But keeping the current 15 jets and accept a loss in capability with a medium trainer is certainly possible in Austria. Another option is of course to get another, cheaper fighter in greater numbers, so a cheaper trainer, maybe even a prop, is enough. Enter Gripen. This option could also be combined with the outsourcing of pilot training to Italy f.e., making the acquisition of an expensive jet trainer unnecessary. Since the S 105 is out in 2020, a decision should be made soon…
Well re-entry speed is very high, surely that results in a nice sonic boom even though it’s at high altitude. If you say re-entry phase = landing phase, the article is correct. They didn’t say sonic boom at touchdown.
It’s possible, though..
Yes that’s an AT-38B from the 586th Flight Test Squadron. Not an operational unit. If I had to guess the “HT” tail code stands for Holloman Test.
… please bring back the quote function…
I just observed that those T-38 where without any wetbags in that picture. Makes them harder to spot, adding Jammer pods would amplify that, just sayin.
T-38 can’t carry tanks. Most T-38 don’t have pylons at all. Only the AT-38B/T-38B is equipped with a centerline station. They can in theory carry ECM pods but I don’t know if that capability is used operationally. I certainly haven’t seen operational T-38s carry ECM pods.
I see… 600 gal tanks are possible though, but not with 4 ASMs of course 🙂
Ofc, 4 harpoons but also with 2 external 370 gallon fuel tanks and a wingtip WVRAAM to be fully operational isn’t it? Now really, “uninformed reply”?
Those are 600 gal tanks actually. And the missiles are Japanese ASM-2.
Mig-28 of course. :very_drunk:
Seriously though, having watched some youtube clips, of all the jets taking of in dry power, I found it interesting that EF seems to have more power than F-22, more than F-35 also goes without saying. At least EF seemed to get off the ground first, canard lift might help. The rest used afterburners (F-15, Rafale, MiG-28… I mean T-38).
I know, i only point out that they use F-15 as aggressor too
The F-15 aggressor squadron has been disbanded in 2014.
Aggressor f-15 , F-16 don’t carry bomb as far as i know, they fly very clean most of the time.
True, but they fly Block 25/32 models, not the hottest F-16 version. The Alaskan aggressor unit has Block 30 jets though.
Perhaps it’s there to divert air over the IRST ball so it’s less exposed to dust particles and such which frost the IRST ball cover?
If it’s just an air diverter, why paint the front of it white?
I’m intrigued as well…
F-35 SDD is paid up so it will be completed by late this year or early next year. OT&E is also paid for so you can’t take money away from it. Sequestration is the only reason the Navy is even considering pitting the Super Hornet against the F-35C. Despite their modest sequestration time-frame F-35C procurement the Navy still has to lay the groundwork for fielding the aircraft, training pilots and developing logistical capacity. Since they have moved their procurement ramp up to post the BCA caps they could possibly look to avoid some of these investments buy buying a few years worth of F-18E/Fs more. Other than that there is really only one additional reason to buy more Super Hornets and that is to preserve the USN supplier base for strike fighters as they slowly roll towards their next aviation project (MQ-25).
What about the fact that the F-35C is not actually ready? Issues like the nose gear and required new outer wings, let alone the few weapons that are integrated. The Navy has to buy Super Hornets to replace worn out legacy Hornets. Other options would be to have less fighters on deck, or field carrier air wings with F-35C prototypes. They probably don’t want that.
Rafale B + Neuron: never heard it mentioned anywhere. Could the Rafale carry the Taurus as it carries the Apache/Scalp, meaning togehter with 3 EFT’s ? Would the French lend the ASMP’s the same way as Americans provide B61’s ?
If Taurus is too heavy to be carried on outer heavy stations, 2 could be carried on inner stations with 2x 1250 l tanks on outer stations plus the 2000 l center tank.
In your list you forgot the German preference for twin engined aircraft. 😉
Just put EF T3 nuclear hardened guts into a twin seater stealth airframe, how hard can it be?
sell their Typhoons to who?
none of the nations building and operating them will be interested in buying more as they try already to reduce their orders. What’s more, they are T1 aircraft that would need serious upgrade to be brought on par with what they use now. and what country will be interested in fighters that cost an arm to operate? Looks to me they’re stuck with their typhoons for the time being.
Yes finding a buyer would be a challenge.
But I think the actual goal of Austrian politicians is not to sell the EFs but to dissolve the contract with Airbus due to criminal acts. That needs proof of course, of which none exists so far.
given the very modest difference in purchase & operational cost between gripen C and E,
i for one can not justify opting for C.
since their EF cant be sold, there must be a reason i’m not aware of to fork up the dough
for another fighter until their T1 is worn out
The reason for A/C over E is simple: Older Gripens are cheaper. E models would have to be bought new. Forget it.
The reason they want to get rid of the EFs is politics. Socialists and most of the population hate them and the socialists want to win the next election so they try everything.
The Austrians are doing nothing of the sort. They’ll either retain their EFs or divest them and give up fighter jets altogether – like Ireland, Albania, Slovenia & the Baltic states.
Giving up fighter jets is a possibility, but less likely than a solution with fighter jets imho. Gripen is a real possibility. Austrian socialists are best buddies with their Swedish colleagues.
Albania, Slovenia and the Balts are all NATO members so their solution does not work for Austria.