Sure thing!! As the saying goes All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Tibet was annexed by the “Peoples Republic”, its national leadership sent into exile, its people endlessly persecuted and marginalised for their religeous and personal beliefs…..yeah sure, its a Chinese matter

When was tibet ever annexed?, the Quin dinasty rulers of china at the time also ruled tibet, they made the Dalai Lama. The chinese never recognized any independance in early 20th century as didnt any other countries in the world. When you say good men do nothing what would you have done, ask the US/Uk to form an army to invade? that wont achieve anything as nor will an economic blockade. Like i said earlier if change is to happen its for the tibetan and chinese people to work out, and if atrocities are being carried out then the chinese people need to be showed them so they can influnence their government. They hold the trump card, not you or me.

I do honestly think many people take freedom and freedom of speech for granted and have no concept of what life would be like when those fundemental rights, (which exist mainly in the evil west btw) were taken away from them, how would you handle it…?

Freedom of expression is a pipe dream that I ripped apart in another thread, the west is full of hypocrasy when it comes to the very term. No one is calling the west evil, yes overall there is more transparency mainly down to the government structure compared with china but you try and make china sound like some sort of monster which is keeping its populace oppressed.

ahhh i see, the good old “if it ain’t me it don’t matter” stance,

I dont have the if it aint me it dont matter stance, allot of allegations are being thrown at china with the tibet issue most of the allegations are not true. Please show me where the chinese government is rounding up people in tibet because they havnt paid tax and are killing them.

so by your logic the population of a country, any country just dosn’t matter a bit to anyone outside that country yeah? How would you feel if you lived in a country perhaps China perhaps not, and they, the goverment there killed your family for not paying there tax or your family were homeless so they were rounded up never to be seen again by you or anyone else? Can you honeslty say you’d appreciate it if the rest of the world just kept the collective noses out of the affair?

Sounds like what the afghan, iraqi, palestinian and numerous other peoples must be feeling right now, why dont you raise your voice against the “collateral damage” that both UK and US carry out day in day out and the brutal israei policies in the occupied teritories.

you speak of moral authority the west has no legs to stand on, when western armies invade countries like iraq, let things like haditha, abu graib, fallujah happen when the people on top turn a blind eye to the whole epsiode how can you expect other world leaders to take western countries seriously.

The bottom line is just like the US/UK rule in Iraq, China rules in tibet, you can say what you want but reality wont change. You can only change perception if you show substantiated proof to the chinese people to make their own government change their stances.

Tibet is part of China. What China is doing is right insofar as their own political, moral, and ethical standards and policies are concerned. Beyond that, nothing else matters. Other nations are perfectly within their rights to have their own opinions based on their own moral and ethical standards, but they have no right to insist that the Chinese adopt those standards.

I think SOC summed it up the best, it is a chinese matter and its upto the chinese/tibetan people to sort it out.

Sounds like one of those “too good to be true” things. For one thing the Kitty Hawk, aka “$hitty Kitty” isn’t exactly a spring chicken and would require $$$$ to SLEP it so even if they got it for “free” it would still cost them money. And then what kinds of strings would be attached? Who would do the maintanence? Training? And so on and so forth. On the other hand if we hooked ’em we could sign them on for another “new” carrier “lease” every couple years and recycle old carriers through India on the way to the scrap heap.

The Kitty might just end up in india regardless, they have one of the biggest shipbreaking yards in the world there….the irony that would make, literally offered for free.

Your a funny person sealord, you said:

I have not been generalising at all and you know it.

and then you say referring to Iran and Saudi:

They are the facts you just choose to avoid them, now accept the reality that large parts of Islam are violent and oppressive as was shown by the violence that followed from the Danish cartoons.

Make up your mind, sounds like generalising to me. So according to you as the theocratic rulers in iran have imposed some radical laws and so has the kings in Saudi (both of which do not represent their people) it must mean all of islam or “large parts of islam” as you put it including those reformers in both Saudi/iran are oppressive and violent. Might I add both countries only make around 6% of world muslims….a rather generalised statement to make dont you think?.;)

This is why i find your reasoning flawed you cant provide substantiated facts but generalised statements.

As for the cartoon riots, it cant be said in all instances but the riots that took place in Pakistan were more to do with frustrations of the daily peoples lives than the cartoons. Why would people burn down cars/houses and businesses that belong to them when they have nothing to do with the cartoons. The same thing happened at benazirs assassination. You simply choose the parts that suit you best without looking at things in context.

So again for the third time where are those facts?

Been to Iran or Saudi Arabia lately? Oh dont tell me those Muslim countrys that derive their laws from Islam are not actually Islamic?

You havnt been reading a word iv been saying, I have covered Saudis and iranis so go through the top part of my posting. And yes I have been to Saudi not so long ago for your information there is a large reformist movement going on there and in iran as well. So where are those facts now? still waiting.

I was talking about the brutal punishments and and oppression of women and homosexuals.

I have not been generalising at all and you know it. Hence why I talk about large tracts of Islam and not Islam as a whole. You just twist peoples words to mask the evil that a large part of Islam represents.

Your good at making wide claims, care to back which tracts of islam support brutal punishment of women and oppresses them? or will you sideline the backing up of claims part again. As for the oppression of homosexuals I dont deny this I know it happens in muslim countries, this also happens in the west as well although not as bad as out of the west.