Now that air superiority has been gained, might attack helicopters and gunships, such as AC-130s, be brought into the mix? I figure they would provide better pin-point strike capability, as well as the ability to loiter for longer periods as battlefield conditions unfolded.

Uh, Niksi…

one question, how do you shoot down an aircraft that’s landing?

A2A missile won’t do, and strafing isn’t the brightest idea you might have (there are plenty of pretty angry guys down there, that had been on the receiving end for some time now… and if you go down to the gun range, you’ll be pretty much an easy target for all the manpads that are most certainly positioned around the airbase)

as for “coalition can bomb anything with the zexcuse of protecting civilians”.. it’s pretty simple: they have sided with the rebels and keep doing the work for them.

if you believe even just for a second that that rebelion may end in a democracy or anything resembling democracy, you’re not just naive, but worse.. much worse… it is a civil war, tribe against tribe, and the winning tribe will “clean” the part it “liberates”… the only difference is that west nations are now involved (and therefore, responsible) if the rebels win… but hey, we don’t care… there’s a saying: “history is written by the winners”, so, all we have to do is win, and then, we’ll say it’s all good and nice, and by the time the reality comes out, nobody will care anymore…

it won’t be the fiorst time anyway… what’s absolutely crazy, is that there are recent examples showing that “bringing democracy” doesn’t work (irak, afghanistan) and yet, we continue de shove our noses where they have nothing to do… pretending “humanitarian reasons”

Niksi, you castigated me for making comments of a similar ilk earlier in this thread. Might you care to castigate about this one as well? Because if not, I will resume where I left off.

“The Qataris must be having seconds thoughts. All greeks news sites yesterday were saying that Sarko had asked to let 8 Qatari M2000 to land to Souda, but they never showed up today… So they don’t seem in a hurry.”

Sure. When you’ve got somebody to do the work for you, what does it matter when you show up? They’ll probably just fly around for a bit, then high-tail it back to Qatar with tales of how the coalition is attacking innocent Arab civilians.

According to the BBC, “Mustafa Gheriani, one of the rebels’ spokesmen, fled Benghazi as Col Gaddafi’s tanks approached. Now he is returning, confident that British, American and French air power have made it safe.

‘The intervention of the international community lessened the bloodshed and quickened his demise,’ he said, “and we’re looking forward to that, in hours or days instead of weeks.”

I sincerely hope that the Arab League considers the wishes of the “rebels” in making their decision about the air strikes. I also hope they don’t conveniently ignore the rampant carnage and bloodshed that Ghadafi has already inflicted on his own people. If they don’t, as far as I’m concerned, they will have lost any credibility and legitimacy they had remaining.

And I don’t want to see a word about hidden agenda and ulterior motives, like oil, and such. You want to see hidden agenda and ulterior motives? Just look at the governments of the countries that compose the Arab League. They are masters of the craft, and they practice it against their own people relentlessly.

Clause 4 of UN Resolution 1973: “4. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council…”

Great strategy by the Arab League. They had to know what was coming in Libya, given the tenor of the UN resolution, in particular the above clause. Now they think they can say, “Well, we tried to help you, but look at how the West screwed things up!” Wash their hands clean of the whole thing before even one of their aircraft takes off, and then go back to subjugating their own citizens. What a bunch of low-life scum.

Good Point

Well the Libyan air force is not bombing unarmed women and children (or at least not trying to) are they?

The situation on the ground has developed into a full scale civil war, and so far it has been a fairly ‘clean’ war in that it is mainly combatants getting hit by air strikes.

If that counts as bombing civilians, then what has the US and friends been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last decade?

Since this is a civil war, what right does any outside party have in interfering to tip the balance in favor of one side or the other?

How would Americans have felt if some outside force, ironically, like the British and French, came in during the dying stages of the American civil war and took ‘all necessary action’ to protect civilian life to help tip the balance of power for the confederates?

This is a Libyan civil war, and they need to work this out themselves. If enough of Libyans are in support on one side, that side will win. Else if outside forces come in and help one side win over the other, what guarantees does anyone have that the will of the people has been served?

Western reports can hardly be counted as impartial in their interpretation of events on the ground. There are plenty of examples of blatant favoritism.

For example, the rebels have lowered the age limit for recruits to 15. Yes, they are sending 15 year old boys out to the front line, with maybe as little as a few days or even hours of training.

Had Qaddaffi done that, the world media would be full of righteous indignation about him using child soldiers and demanding the ICC indite him as a war criminal. But since its the darlings of the western media that is doing it, there is barely any mention.

Similarly, reporters reporting from towns captured by pro-qaddaffi forces would stand in the middle of huge crowds all cheering Qaddaffi, and stress how people who felt differently would not dare raise their voice. But did they think people who support Qaddaffi would dare to come out and say so when the rebels took a town?

Yet we hear reports of pro-Qaddaffi forces apparently ambushing journalists deep in rebel held territory. So, is that evidence that hatred for Qaddaffi is not as universal and loyalty to him enforced by a gun as the media would wish us to believe, or evidence that the media would blame Qaddaffi for all of Libya’s ills whether he deserve it or not?

Has any of the army of journalists operating in Libya even tried to find out what has happened to captured pro-Qaddaffi soldiers and officers? All we have are images of them being led away and often with the rebels trying to stop even that being recorded. Anyone wanna bet all those prisoners are all fine and well singing happy songs in a POW camp?

When you base your decisions on such biased and distorted reporting, and decide to use military force as a result, there is a real risk you are getting yourself into something you do not fully understand and may get a result you do not want.

There are strong signs that there are tribal distinctions between the sides, and if that is the case, you may well be helping one tribe achieve domination over another. If that is the case, you won’t get a happy cuddly democracy out of this at the end. Just a different boot stamping on a different face.

But hey, as long as the oil flows, who cares right? Just ask the peaceful protestors in Bahrain.

While I whole-heartedly support destroying Ghadafi, you have a good point. Where is the outrage about Yemen, Saudis in Bahrain, even the Ivory Coast? But, then again, China has a dubious reputation itself, at the very best. Sudan, Tibet, Tiananmen Square- need I say more?

Thanks, Tango III- Fantastic!

Thanks very much- the pictures of the Iraqi badge and the Lasta are incredible! I am constantly amazed at what I find in these threads.