I think the Bentley or Rolls Royce Coupe is already provided for in a drive on drive off capacity. See pics within article.

Still Airbus should be happy as other ‘Princes’ will not wish to be outdone and that could mean a few more (keep up with the Jones’s .. oops sorry I meant Princes) orders.

Nothing surprises me as when I worked for a large Mobile Phone manufacturer’s R&D facility, in the mid 1990s we produced again for wealthy Arab customers actual working ‘Dick Tracey’ style watch mobile phones and pen shaped and sized mobile phones.
All done by the ‘concept’ phones department ofcourse

Well they found the Helderberg’s flight recorders at about 6000m I think it was.

I’ll go fully with this argument.
The important thing is to give them positive encouragement (i.e. everyone who is involved from the actual experts at the ‘coal face’ to those who are financing the operation).
It’s worth waiting for – a further partial closure for those bereaved (usually never if no bodies are found), some clarification for Airbus Industrie and Air France and moreso the long term impact for aviation safety on long haul.

Given that it is 2 months since the last post on this thread on the topic of the black boxes search area being narrowed down, it must be a mammoth task.
More power to the elbows of the searchers though. Much can be gleened from the analysis of the data.

Hi KabirT

The loss of lives in Indian Airspace was a tragedy simply waiting to happen, it has and maybe the tragedy at Mangalore will waken India’s DGCA into rapid improvements and not risk an International downgrading for poor safety standards.

See 27Vet 25th June 2010, 04:56 and nJayM 26th June 2010, 01:14 where the WSJ ASIA NEWS JUNE 21, 2010 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050804575318553971705946.html is quoted in the thread about the Mangalore crash.

Quoting from the same WSJ article –

“……Regulators and international air-safety experts are now focusing on ways to fix persistent shortcomings in India’s pilot-training programs. Indian officials already have proposed tightening rules ranging from acceptable landing procedures to fatigue-prevention schedules for crews. Broader mandates are likely….

….Other areas under scrutiny include safeguards when pilots temporarily leave the cockpit for breaks. There also are stricter requirements that all aviators—particularly expatriate pilots—speak good English and are well-versed in air-traffic-control terminology. The captain of the accident plane was a British citizen of Serbian descent, and the co-pilot was an Indian national….

….Indian regulators also are considering ways to ensure that pilots are trained and assigned so they fully understand the particular handling characteristics of a designated aircraft model……

…..According to people knowledgeable about the crash probe, the tentative conclusion by investigators is that pilots failed to adhere to widely accepted safety rules about breaking off an approach if the plane is losing altitude too quickly, has too much speed just before landing or is likely to touch dangerously far down the runway. The lack of scorched rubber or other evidence of extreme braking on the runway supports the idea that the plane tried to lift off again. Information retrieved from the plane’s flight-data and cockpit-voice recorders, however, indicates some confusion and hesitation, these people said.

…Bill Voss, …….makeup of the crew could have contributed to a breakdown in cockpit discipline or communication. The dramatic growth of Indian aviation has “resulted in an influx of expatriate pilots with language and cultural challenges,” according to Mr. Voss. India’s regulators “have been trying to compensate for this,” he said, with special mandated training to alleviate approach and landing hazards……

….”the probe will be completed by the end of this month and a report will be out July 1.”……

….DGCA officials are scrambling to demonstrate a tougher approach. They are considering imposing or reiterating rules that for many years have been mainstays of global aviation safety….

….The agency, for example, months ago proposed barring most pilots from switching between different jetliner models during the same duty period. Flying multiple aircraft types during the same day or week poses extra safety challenges, as pilots tend to be more comfortable and perform best when they establish a routine behind the controls of a single aircraft model. U.S. carriers don’t allow pilots to switch models in such fashion, and the practice generally is frowned upon by international safety experts…..

…regulators spelled out rules for landings that are second nature for pilots in many other regions. Rather than trying to please passengers with the smoothest possible touchdown—a goal previously emphasized by some Indian carriers—the latest directive stressed that the proper criteria are arriving “at the correct speed and touchdown zone on the runway.” ….

….After the captain of another Air India Express jet left the cockpit for a bathroom break earlier this month, the plane encountered turbulence and the co-pilot apparently failed to initially respond properly. The plane dived thousands of feet before the crew fully regained control, scaring passengers ….

….For years, safety experts from the U.S. and other countries have quietly criticized Indian airlines and regulators for lax training. In some cases, according to these critics, newly certified co-pilots don’t have the training or self-confidence to cope with unusual maneuvers or situations.

….Critics also have faulted airports and air-traffic controllers, citing hazards from birds and frequent instances of near-collisions in certain busy airspace. On Friday, the DGCA official said his agency is investigating nearly 50 instances of planes flying dangerously close to each other….

….Two passenger airplanes narrowly missed a head-on collision at Mumbai’s domestic airport this month. Last year, a helicopter carrying President Pratibha Patil landed on the same runway from which a Delhi-bound Air India aircraft was about to take off….

….In 2009, the FAA considered downgrading India’s safety rating, a move that would have precluded big carriers like Jet Airways and state-controlled Air India from expanding service to and from the U.S. The U.S. agency’s primary concern was whether India’s air-safety regulators had enough independence and expertise….

…..the FAA decided against a downgrade. Indian officials, for their part, promised to beef up the DGCA by quickly hiring extra staff or getting Indian carriers to temporarily transfer some of their employees to fill hundreds of new positions created for government inspectors.

…;.the DGCA has signaled it is especially interested in making sure that cash-strapped airlines don’t scrimp on training, maintenance and essential operational controls. Government inspectors are expected to conduct more ramp inspections, ratchet up enforcement of pilot skills and require simulator training that highlights closer cooperation between captains and first officers in emergencies. “

Need I go on and all these serve to show that the shortcomings in the standards are wide open to scrutiny and criticism and unless the Indian DGCA ‘snap’ to it there are going to be other tragedies?

What happened with Blue Dart had and has serious implications and the context of which is covered in the WSJ article.

The report from the Mangalore crash may be slightly overdue.

I sincerely hope the DGCA do pull their socks up and not put India’s global economic stampede before aviation safety.

Hi KabirT

My reference to International Airlines is simply because if they are delayed due to the shortsightedness of Indian Regulations handed down/sanctioned by the DG Aviation (topic is referenced in this forum in the recent crash at Mangalore awaiting final outcome reports) that permits poor standards of training, poor supervision and most importantly standards that will certainly not wash with any major European, American or Asian airline operating in and out of major international Airports.

The International Standards are continuously being lifted and this is in the interests of passenger and aircraft safety and if at certain countries’ airports these standards are compromised by ‘riskay flying’ by internal operators such as Blue Dart, then it is worthy of positive criticism.
Any trading relationship with DHL does not absolve Blue Dart from operating (including providing training for flight crew) at the highest standards at airports where other safety concious flights are operating in and out of.

The sum total of this incident is that the Captain was unable to take rapid control when his trainee erred.
The rest is in the voice recordings and statements of the crew at investigation/s.

There is never an excuse for poor quality, training and even worse poor quality supervision or lack of intervention capability by the captain.
The whole think ‘sucks’ out there.
Too much of throwing safety to the winds and it can stay out there for all I care as long as it doesn’t affect International airlines operating in and out of India.
Sadly it often does as in this example where runway lights were taken out. It could cause delays to other safety concious international flights.