nJayMAbsolutely – cheap gutter press publicity.
Even if Boeing agree to modifications, there are all the safety aspects to be cleared by many authorities and organisations other than Boeing.
What would be the ‘crash position’ a standing passenger would adopt if an emergency had to be declared?
There is video footage of crash simulation testing using dummies of both aircraft and automobiles where dummies are deliberately not strapped in to seats. These examples show clearly that the dummies become heavy projectiles travelling initially at the velocity and acceleration of the aircraft or autombile itself. The impact of these projectile humans is likely to be fatal for themselves but can also kill other seating passengers due to impact.
Even if the declared emergency isn’t a fatal crash the standing passengers are very likely even if strapped in standing seats going to be at a higher risk of ‘silent’ injuries initially not evident. This would be caused by their higher centre of gravity within the aircraft hull and primarily the vulnerability of their head, brain within the skull and spinal cord.
Obviously RyanAir passengers get the same treatment from MOL as ageing race horses – the knackers yard – in other words who cares.
nJayMYou certainly would not require wheels on pull along luggage. There’d be enough maggots or large ants that would provide adequate ‘feet’ for mobility of the luggage.
Can be aptly named “The Flea Circus”
nJayMStrathclyde Police through the Ayr Council’s accountant should arrange to send RyanAir a no nonsense Invoice for providing essential sustenance to the RyanAir passengers.
The report states there was a 5-6 hour wait on board while on the runway, what about MOL’s crazy idea about only one toilet on board?
Would that mean that Strathclyde Police would have had to arrange for Portaloos as well?
Thanks goodness by the sounds of it this aircraft hadn’t as yet had it’s toilets reduced in number.
nJayMMH certainly are unlikely to be simply cost cutting.
No the delays are the likely cause and I am surprised the new Everett baby The Boeing 787 Dreamliner hasn’t come up for consideration with interim leased Boeing 747-8is and 777s in the meantime.
Ofcourse as already posted they could just be seeing a fall in passenger traffic for the foreseeable future.
nJayMhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050804575318553971705946.html
The Wall Street Journal article part quoted by Newforest is an interesting one.
Yes the late pilots ultimately are technically to blame but let’s assume that they were flying because they needed a salary and hence had to yield to possible bureacracy with respect to not fully adhering to the safety standards for that particular type of aircraft at that airport.
Then surely it is the bureacracy (both DGCA and Air India) that must be facing the investigators and the bereaved families.
If the WSJ article is factual then there is a lot that India seems to have been risking since over a year ago in their Air Safety standards being considered for down grading.
It’s not a ‘big stick’ approach it’s just common sense in the interests of safety and the reputation of good aircraft manufacturers.
I hope the findings from this crash brings everything out into the open and that the US Safety Experts and Boeing put their foot down with India to clean up their act rapidly.
nJayMNice idea but there must be a zillion reasons why they would never do it. The first would be money. There are already a lot of things they could do to make accidents more survivable but they don’t because it would result in a weight penalty = loss of money.
As I said to Tall Tower, keep the dreams going, but maybe each person’s dreams for aircraft and airliner design and safety enhancements should be recorded (maybe even here).
I come from a research background working closely with advanced scientists and every item of research/good idea is indexed and catalogued even if not immediately useful.
e.g. some of Leonardo da Vinci’s drawings and notes were on his versions of flying machines. http://www.lairweb.org.nz/leonardo/ornithopters.html
There was no money or knowledge in Leonardo’s time either to see devleopment of his work then but we have a made a million strides ahead since.
Hence your dreams Tall Tower and any of you others that wish to record them may seem a Zillions reasons away from a ‘spend’ now but who knows may be a ‘spend’ in the future.
nJayMEjection seats have been traditionally fitted in military aircraft from the late 1940s and onward.
But what if ejection seats were fitted to commercial aircraft?
What advantages could it bring?
Safe, rapid ejection of the endangered passengers.
But what about the disadvantages?
Please feel free to list me any disadvantages.
Would you want to be boarding an airliner designed with ejection escape systems?
Some of many disadvantages and improbables –
– Military pilots would be wearing suitable atire and a helmet which can be an advantage/life saver if ejection has to effected at high altitudes, Airline passengers as yet do not wear special atire. Imagine the delay in dressing up, checking viability/operation of atire and then actually boarding an A380 or 787 Dreamliner. It could take all day.
– For effective ejection of all passengers in a large civillian aircraft it would have to be built to disintegrate into pre-defined parts permitting everyone inside a fair chance of getting out safely and clear of each other. Defeats the purpose in a way as once the fuselage is broken up intentionally or in an accident the occupants have very poor chances of survival
– Having said the above, there could be some sort of escape pod/s concept of segments of the aircraft, where the inner pod/s with occupants seperated in a pre-set pattern/manner, dropped very rapidly under multiple parachutes. There are ofcourse huge increases in weight, problems of de presurisation (requiring heavy inter pod equipment systems to sustain life, pressure and oxygen systems), internal lighting,automatic floatation capabilities and emergency transmitter beacons.
-Take off weight would become an almost impossibility to cope with under present fossil fuel saving plans.
-Cost of such airliners would be simply astronomic for average airline operation
-Maybe Airforce 1 some day will be similar (I think there was a film – fiction ofcourse, some time back on this theme)
Who knows though maybe someday, but like Detroit ignored the alternatives to fossil fuel burning internal combustion engines for decades (through convenience), aircraft manufacturers and engine designers (have stayed on similar early conceptual designs) must rapidly ramp up advanced R&D.
Who will pay for all this?
Ideally someone should be thinking and paying but it simply isn’t happening.
It could happen if the DOD and MOD decided that transport of highly trained forces or units was of absolute importance and safety, e.g. SAS, SEALS and they could have special aircraft with escape pods, but again take off weight, the necessity to operate out of unconventional take off and landing strips make this again sci fi.
Although ‘Dreams are what all ideas stem from’.
This comes from a man who has as a child with his father or uncle (if dad was abroad) sat in the Colombo Institute of Scientific and Industrial Research and listened to lectures by the late Arthur C. Clarke along with diagrams and sketches of his dreams for space and interplanetary travel.
Arthur C. Clarke’s dreams came true.
So Talltower keep the dreams going they may come to fruition some day.
nJayMGiven the authenticity of the pic posted by Steve Rowell 19th May 2010, 23:21 http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/05/boeings-newest-and-oldest-airliners-fly-together/
certainly the word sleek seems appropriate.
It will be good to see another Everett baby for real in a few weeks.
An interesting WSJ article which gives a pictorial of where large parts come from – see URL http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125486824367569007.html
nJayMBlue Dart Aviation Boeing 757-200, freight flight DZ-201 from Mumbai to Bangalore (India), obviously did not line up on the center line of the departure runway 27 in Mumbai and took 15 runway edge lights out of the left hand side of the runway before the crew corrected but now took 4 more edge lights out of the right hand side. The takeoff and flight was continued, …..
….Blue Dart Aviation commented, that the airplane had a flat tyre after landing in Bangalore. India’s Directorate General of Civil Aviation is investigating…….
…Aviation sources in Mumbai say, the first officer was a trainee under supervision and may have been “tested” by the captain. The takeoff looked like a “drunken horse” departing.
Source: The Aviation Herald
Oh! boy it gets worse out there.
DG Aviation should ground the flight crew immediately pending investigation/inquiry and reprimand the airline for having inadequate quality on board flight crew training including complete airport orientation/awareness.
Wonder why the “drunken horse” didn’t simply attempt to abort the take off?
I suppose on the way down at Bangalore the touch down for the passengers felt more like riding “a drunken bucking bronco”
nJayMIrrespective of the quality of the newspaper if the report is based on facts, then it is worthy of praise.
Although the saying goes “lightning never strikes twice in the same place” it could have happened that the Captain also had the awful ‘fish’.
If both Captain and 1st Officer became simultaneously indisposed then we have a scenario from the series of Airplane movies and who knows O’Hare tower with a suitable pilot of the same series of aircraft in the tower could/may have talked the young woman down.
Happy ending though.
nJayMNo there is no reference to his being blind.
Remarkable that he survived as had the aircraft been at conventional altitude he would have been a ‘gonner’.
nJayMI shall look forward to seeing those two at Farnborough
nJayMThat is very extensive damage and Rolls Royce will have their hands full with this analysis.
Both the 777 and RR Trent 895 series of engines are deployed extensively.
That was lucky and excellent work by the crew to bring the aircraft back safely into European airspace.
Let’s wait on the inspection report
nJayMI would rather avoid the word suspicious and rather say that in different parts of the world airlines’ declare their profits on different date/months.
Accounting standards are not all uniform across every nation in the world.
Also it is better to see the figures relating to each airline’s Cash Flow Statement rather than purely the profit in the Income Statement.
Profit can be here (declared) today and in fact gone (already committed to settle existing debts) not just tomorrow but ‘yesterday’.
Good cash flow that is well managed and any excess sensibly invested is to be lauded as good governance of any airline fitting that financial management style.
nJayMHi KabirT
This is a newspaper report. Words in English can be twisted to mean a whole lot more or a whole lot less.
If the statements in this quote from a newspaper article in its entirity or parts are true then it is one that International Authorities will have to look in to very seriously.
e.g. Do the captains and pilots of Air India behave differently at International Airports outside of India ?
I presume this behaviour of captains/pilots (under duress) must only be observed and prevail in the Indian subcontinent.
As by now Air India flight captains landing at International Airports outside of India would have been reported for risking a crash, which could involve not just the aircraft they are flying but a whole lot more on the ground, and large civillian casualities.
Air India Express is a whole different aspect, although if this was practice of their captains/pilots necessitated by fear/duress, then there is much more behind this crash that the Indian Authorities must face up to and come clean with the people of India, especially the relatives and next of kin of those dead including the pilots and crew.
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