Just to add to his point, here’s an interesting clip of a YJ-18:

basically look like a straigth line

You may not realise this, but what you put up is actually supporting my point. Also remember that a missile doesn’t want to change direction, they want to fool the defence. The end point is always the same, the ship.
The point is that the anti-missile system is a slave to the requirement of always trying to figure out where the missile is going to be.

yes the end point is the ship obviously
what iam saying is instead of fly directly to the ship the missile do like a 3D S shape maneuver, and that where subsonic missile have advantage because they change direction left – right – up – down very quick , supersonic missiles actullay only jigging rather than making complicated maneuver

1. Well yes overall there are more english written books and translated books to english then Russian. No ****. But on russian military equipment and with remotly same accuracy as of russian authors. No

this is just your guess , how could you expect people to take you serious when you state your opinion as fact , not even with proper reasoning

2. The specs on Granit that have been floating on the net have been around since at least 2001. And even older then that when they didn’t even know how this missiles even looked like for ****s sakes.

http://xxrntcs.devhub.com/img/upload/kirovtt.jpg

in your link they only state the range for p-700 , no info about speed or cruise altitude or even how it guide ,it could be argue that it that time p-700 still classified

Domestic and export versions differ. It can be a small difference can be or a big one. Hence Russians use different designation if something is meant for export. Common ******* knowledge at this point i would think. Once again you haven’t got a clue.

no you assume there huge different between domestic and export and they only gave info about the export , my point is that the different if there is one between domestic and export isnot very significant and mostly do with range or seeker strength , and it more likely that producer give spec of their best product for advertising

More nonsense. Ever though for example that Onyx and Yakhont differ in engines. And Onyx could possible have a higher top speed ?

no , anti ship missiles need to fly low to be effective ( you saw the calculations in previous page ) , and it really really really hard to improve speed at low altitude due to very thick air = high drag
ex :
F-16 have top speed of mach 2 at high altitude
F-15 have top speed of mach 2.5 at high altitude
mig-31 have top speed of mach 2.83 at high altitude
Huge difference in speed at high altitude
but at low altitude they all top out at about mach 1.2

No ****. One of the reasons why a lot of those missiles have errors about them.

you haven’t really point out any error

Seeing as they don’t allow foreigners to dig through archives of wwII stuff as freally anymore as they used to. and they weren’t all that whilling to back in the 90’s. You really thing they’d allow foreigners about they’re missiles especially likes of granit. lol

this is bull **** , no reason for them to limit info to foreign authors ,while provide info to domestic authors , if classified was actually a concern then they wouldnt release info to domestic author either , because if they give info to domestic author and that person write book then basically foreign people will have access to the information anyway if they have a translator
also you keep thinking about granit as a super weapon , it not

Hell, there antsy even about small arms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATpeX3XBuuw

TV show are made like that to entertain people

Did not say that their diagram of Moskit is of Yasper. Go reread my posts. And no, you really don’t know what you’re arguing about. Glad you finally admit that.

you said they mistaken the 2 missiles ,but they didnt

they have labaled Yashma(Yasper) as a Moskit missile. Never mind the fact that Yashma(Yasper) is the a export version of sub launched Onyx(Yakhont).

You yourself said air launched version of a Moskit would be lighter. I assumed fine lets say same weight reduction as between BrahMos air launched and ship launched versions. 500 kg. That would still make the a supposed air launched Moskit a ton heavier compared to an air launched Brahmos.

what if the reducetion are more than that ?

I already explained you why. It was a place holder for another missile. Try to keep up. And no pylon on the a su-27 would hold a Moskit while airborne.
But hey try to find me this airborne Kh-41 airborne. And not outside of MAKS on the ground used one time as placeholders.

no aircraft isnot lego , they cannot just stick Moskit to another missiles pylon also as i have explained
missiles have low drag , in the center = no asymmetric load , pylon can hold it , and it well within take off weight of su-27 , both book , website and even picture say su-27 can carry Moskit too (may not be idea )
in the other words everything suggest that iam right , your only argument is that you think Moskit is too heavy without actually know how much air launched version weight

Or better yet ask Berkut if a Su-27 can carry a Moskit. He needs a good laugh.

not sure if Berkut is your idol or what ever ? , but what he have to do with anything ?

One can hardly lose an argument to a wall. One just can simply walk away because you’re talking to a ******* wall in the end. And I have wasted enough time on you.

actually it quite clear you lose the argument because :
1- you unable to provide evidence or reasonable explanation for your statement
2- start calling name when people disagree with you
3- realize (2 ) doesnt work then attempt to end argument by saying you wasted enough time :rolleyes:

http://itar-tass.com/politika/584241

more sources. Here mention range of more then 2500 km and for supersonic variant 375 km

i actually mean somethings official like a Russian website about weapon , or a book, or producer officials website , not just a newspaper but alright no big deal Tomahawk block II can reach 2500 km too , Jassm-er can reach 1000 km, Missile de Croisi�re Naval can reach 1000 km too ..etc not very surprise that
subsonic missile have long range

If they did there wouldn’t be discrepancies compared to what Russian authors have written.

1-there are many more english books compared to russian books
2-the time Russian authors written the info may be classified but later when Western author write about it ,it no longer classified

It is classified. If it wasn’t they released the specs about Granit. No go so far.

they did , all over the internet

And Russian arms manufacturers generally only release info only on export versions of domestic products unless they are out of service or generally old and or compromised.

this is purely speculation
but even if that was true then they are most likely different in max range , stronger seeker (alot easier to change )
top speed ,on the other hand very hard , almost impossible to increase
not to mention there are no export version of Kh-20, Kh-15 , Kh-22 ,P-700 GRANIT , P-500 Bazalt

Even in the 90’s a lot of info was a no go to foreign authors. And even less so this days. Nevermind outdated or not.

this is bull **** , no reason for them to limit info to foreign authors ,while provide info to domestic authors , if classified was actually a concern then they wouldnt release info to domestic author either

Again picture is of a Moskit. But the picture has nothing to do with the fact that they think Yasper is part of a Moskit familly.

you said their diagram of Moskit is a Yasper while i pointed out that it obviously a Moskit ,i don’t know what you arguing about

And it would still be a ton heavier. .

it classified so how would you know the air launched moskit isnot lighter ?

One think to hook it up while on the ground. It’s another thing to fly with it. Of course you wouldn’t get that.

sure , so according to you , the Russian just hook a moskit on Su-27 because they think it look cool :rolleyes:
i and i thought you said no pylon on su-27 can hold a Moskit :rolleyes:
anyway to be serious i cant see why su-27 cant fly with that , missiles have low drag , in the center = no asymmetric load , pylon can hold it , and it well within take off weight of su-27 , both book , website and picture suggest su-27 can carry that too

You’re frankly a waste of time to talk with.

:rolleyes: wow what a smart way to end an argument that you obviously lost

Oh, I don’t disagree with all you said, it simply backs up what I was trying to say. Supersonic, flies low, makes manoeuvres, trackers overshoot (and therefore projectiles may overshoot and miss too

The only thing remaining is the larger RCS the big Russian missiles have (potentially larger IR signature too) offering a somewhat earlier warning to the ship. I believe another member posted on that issue, it is not the one that poked my interest when I was reading comments on this thread.

point is subsonic fly alot lower , more maneuver