medoThere was no Russian army in Ukraine. Novorussian forces defeat Ukrainian army because of Ukrainian incompetence.
medoOn the photo could be seen, that IS capture L-39 trainers.
medohttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28918792
Fighters from Islamic State (IS) have taken control of a key Syrian government airbase, activists say.
The Tabqa airbase was the last remaining stronghold of Bashar al-Assad’s government in Raqqa province.
IS captured Syrian Tabqa air base. There is a question, what planes and helicopters IS captured there and what AD complexes were there. They will for sure find pilots and operators inside their units. Any flying plane, even MiG-21, and any SAM could represent a treat to all air forces, who fight with IS.
medoGamma-DE and Protivnik-GE are not S-400 radar, but 2 of many early warning radars.
medoThere are two of them!
http://russianplanes.net/images/to144000/143053.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to143000/142601.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to143000/142600.jpgMi-8 with target drones?
http://russianplanes.net/images/to144000/143016.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to143000/142936.jpg
Not two, three. RF-13345, RF-13346 and RF-13347. i wonder, what sensors they have in those pods. Looks like windows for MAWS sensors.
medoHow many SAMs and other AD equipment IS managed to capture in Iraq and in Syria? In Syria they use SA-8 against Syrian helicopters.
medohttp://ria.ru/world/20140725/1017459906.html
“17 июля командиру 156-го зенитного ракетного полка было предписано провести тренировку боевых расчетов по прикрытию наземной группировки войск в пригороде Донецка — развернуть дивизионы, отработать проводку целей и выполнить весь алгоритм по сопровождению и условному уничтожению целей ракетой ЗРК “Бук-М1”, — рассказал собеседник агентства.
По его словам, несмотря на то что командирам батарей были выданы разблокировочные ключи на проведение пусков ракет, реальный запуск ракеты 9М38М1 не был предусмотрен.
“Для участия в тренировке в Днепропетровск с авиабазы Кульбакино 229 бригады тактической авиации в Николаеве были направлены два самолета Су-25. Перед ними была поставлена задача провести воздушную разведку и обозначить контрольные цели в районе сосредоточения группировки АТО к западу от Донецка”, — сообщил источник.
“После входа одного из самолетов в зону обнаружения ЗРК “Бук” он был взят на сопровождение боевым расчетом батареи, расположенной у населенного пункта Зарощенское. По всей видимости, по трагической случайности через какое-то время маршруты полетов малайзийского Boeing и Су-25, несмотря на разницу в эшелонах, совпали, слившись на экране в одну крупную точку, что стало фатальным для гражданского борта — в момент схождения целей на одном азимуте система сопровождения автоматически перестраивается на ведение той, которая имеет наибольшую площадь”, — отметил он.
При этом источник не смог объяснить причину несанкционированного пуска ракеты. “Этим вопросом занимаются сотрудники СБУ, которые около половины десятого вечера забрали командира батареи с экипажем”, — пояснил он, добавив, что не располагает данными о ходе разбирательства.
РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20140725/1017459906.html#ixzz38SanLlCG
Sources inside Ukrainian armed structures confirm, that Malaysian airliner was shot down by accident by Ukrainian army during their air defense exercise in Donetsk Area. It was shot down by 156th air defense regiment. in 17th July, Ukrainian air defense have trainings and they send 156th regiment on positions and 2 Su-25 were used for training as real targets. When they lock 1 Su-25, it cross the path of airliner, that at the moment both targets in Buk radar become 1 target. They could not explain, why the missile was launched as it was not meant to be launched during trainings and they investigate it.
medoTraces of warhead fragments and damages more and more show, that the missile which shot down the plane didn’t come from the front side, but from back and damage is very horizontal and directed, so this could actually be air to air missile. Russian press briefing show only civil ATC radar picture, which is filtered to show only picture above 5000 m. The fighter behind airliner, which shadow it, could fly below 5000 m and launch IR guided AAM like R-73 or R-27T, which then headed to the engine and explode near the wing. Why the military jet climb in front of airliner? Maybe to check result or to finish the job.
medoGeneral in press briefing say the plane is probably Su-25, not that it is Su-25.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YGJe8Go9j4
On the video is seen, that Ukraine also use MiG-29 jets for attacks and MiG-29 and Su-25 are quite of similar size on radar, so there is also a good chance, that Ukrainian military jet around airliner, is MiG-29 instead of Su-25 and MiG could use both R-73 and R-27T missiles.
medoMalaysian airliner was shot down by air to air missile. When BUK missile explode by proximity fuse, it explode spherically, so fragments fly in all directions and HE-FRAG warhead have around 70 kg. On the picture we could see, that fragments went horizontally in one direction only like with shot gun and toward the engine. This indicate the missile was IR guided R-73 or R-27T from Ukrainian fighter.
medoTop NATO general says rebel SAM operators received recent training in Russia. You know what I don’t understand is why would Putin supply them with Buks when the Tors would’ve offered a lot of capability without the risk to high altitude commercial air traffic.
Russia didn’t give them Buks, they capture them in Ukrainian air defense base A-1402 at the end of June. But in two weeks they could train only basics about Buks.
There are two pictures of Buk with number 312, 1 was made in Ukrainian army in Gorlovka in March heading for Donetsk region and other of the same Buk was made in Lugansk in July. This one could be either captured by rebels or still in hands of Ukrainian army, which also have Buks in the region. The chances who launch Buk missile on airliner are still 50:50.
medoIt was well over 7900 metres.
Are you really saying that the Russians would – nowadays – deliberately shoot down a US civilian airliner? I’ll be damned! That’s a weird thing to say. What planet do you live on?
The altitude & bearing would’ve told anyone who knew what he was looking at that it was flying over, headed for Russia. If it was doing anything else, flying in that direction, it’d have been much lower.
Have you never been on an airliner? Not looked out of the windows or used the route tracker? Anything at 10000 metres & flying straight towards a border 60 km away is going to cross it.
The rebels have internet access. They can track airliners. This is public, & published data, freely available to anyone who wants it in damn near real time nowadays. If they didn’t know it was because they weren’t interested. Real militaries get hold of the airline schedules & consult them. Even the USS Vincennes had a paper copy of the schedules of airliners flying overhead, & someone looked at it – but got it wrong, trying to read it under pressure in dim light, confused by a delayed take-off, & in an atmosphere of hysteria whipped up by the captain.
The way I read it, the rebels probably shot it down. They probably did think it was Ukrainian, but had no excuse for thinking that. If they’d not been trigger-happy psychos, they’d have identified it as an airliner.
Do you really think there is internet in the front lines? This is war there, not military exercise. They are under constant bombardment from Ukrainian artillery and air force. Also there is encircled Ukrainian army near and Ukrainian transport planes drop supplies to them too. There is no excuse, that someone allow airliner with 300 civilians to fly over war zone with intensive air battle, where An-26 and Su-25 were shot down. It doesn’t matter in which altitude it fly, in such circumstances it absolutely must not fly there. One side in war doesn’t guaranty safety, so it must not be there. Only question is, if airliner was there by accident, or someone intentionally send it there and risk lives of 300 civilians for some political bonuses, because he knows well, that such thing will happened during heavy battles.
It’s not about trigger-happy psychos. No one will expect airliner in the middle of air battles in war zone. Also IFF in TELAR only show if plane is friend or foe.
medoAccidentally – only if they’re reckless and/or incompetent. It was a clear day. You’d have to be blind not to be able to see that it was an airliner, flying high, & radar should have shown its height, speed & direction of flight, which was typical of an airliner, & completely different from a ground attack aircraft.
Its location was known to civil ATC. Russian ATC was expecting it. They still talk to Ukrainian ATC.
Who would distinguish airliner on classical radar screen from Ukrainian transport plane like Il-76? Also communication between Russian ATC and Ukrainian ATC doesn’t solve the problem, that Novorussia doesn’t have ATC and their international airports in Donetsk and Lugansk ares still in Ukrainian hands, so Novorussian side in air war could not communicate with civil planes, neither have informations of them in the air. That mean 1 side in war zone doesn’t guaranty safety for civil flights, what mean air space is closed and flying inside it is on your own responsibility. Ukrainian ATC is responsible to the Ukrainian borders and they are aware of situation in a war zone and that they could not communicate with Novorussian side to give them routes and times of airliners.
medoRead back a little.
Many millions of people have flown over war zones where aircraft were getting shot down regularly. I’ve done it myself a couple of times, the first time over Afghanistan in the 1980s. I also flew over Iran (Pakistan to Turkey) during the Iran-Iraq war. Vast numbers of others did the same.
It’s normal. Notices are issued depending on the risk. Flying from Karachi to Europe, handed over by Pakistani to Iranian ATC then on to Turkish ATC (or in reverse, depending on which way one went) – no problem. Aircraft identified, air defences ignore it. Normal. As long as it stays in communication with ATC, signals its identity, & sticks to the right route & altitude, it’s perfectly safe. Many thousands of flights, over many years, have done that.
Flying over a bunch of rebels with MANPADS & the like there’s no ATC safety, but altitude protects you. So you obey the notices telling you to keep high. You’re out of range of anything except high-performance SAMs. & it’s obvious to anyone on the ground who has half a brain what you are & that you’re not trying to bomb them.
This is true, when both sides have full ATC and both sides guaranty safety flight route and both sides are in right time informed of civil plane in its agreed corridor. The problem here is, that one side doesn’t have ATC, neither was in time informed about civil planes and their routes, neither have capabilities to inform or warn civil planes in combat zone. In such cases, when both sides could not provide safety, civil planes will not fly there. I’m sure that all air companies are aware of this fact, so they take some risks on their own responsibility with flying in war zone.
medoCheck out the New York Times site: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/17/world/europe/maps-of-the-crash-of-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.html?_r=0
Apart from Malaysian Airlines, other airlines like KLM, Thai Airways and Lufthansa were routing aircraft over the area. British Airways and Air France avoided the area.
Anyone with access to ATC data ought to know airliners were passing overhead – regularly. Anyone with rudimentary aircraft identifying skills would know.
Don’t forget, there is a war between Ukrainian air force and Novorussian air defense. In war zone everyone fly on his own responsibility. When you have a mix of enemy warplanes and civil planes in the air, such accidents easily happen, specially if air defense is under attack. That is why anyone with 300 civilians on board will not fly in such dangerous zone.
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