snafuNo offence but did you actually read any of the above? Illustrious has already been towed away.
snafuNothing better to do than post it twice, eh John?
Doesn’t make it any more convincing though.
snafuThis is John ‘Scrooge’ Green remember.
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snafuAnyone thin John is avoiding something?
Maybe he is hiding his 25 years inside for fiddling his tax returns…
snafuI think the Nazi imagery of British Punk was more an opportunity to outrage their stuffy elders, the ones they blamed for all the woes they were presently suffering, rather than worship at that altar.
‘Belsen was a Gas‘ was a song by the Sex Pistols, and a slogan proudly painted onto leather and denim jackets across the nation; the song was supposed to be ironic, ‘gas’ might be taken as youth slang for great but also related to the gas chambers of concentration camps like Belson – although it didn’t actually have gas chambers since it wasn’t an extermination camp.
Sham 69 was a Punk/early Oi crossover, but the knuckledraggers were fans rather than disciples, more due to the football terrace chant-style chorus’ than the politics; the band themselves were well in with the Rock Against Racism people (unlike, for example, Clapton and Bowie) and lead singer Jimmy Pursey declared that they would stop performing in London after one gig was disrupted, and they ceased performing entirely in 1979 after a riot at a gig where NF skinheads rushed the stage. The band broke up shortly after, for several years.
Being a skinhead did not necessarily mean being a racist dupe – for example Slade (very popular at this time of year) started life as an early skinhead combo (as Ambrose Slade, in fact) – but those bands that didn’t want that kind of fan moved away from the look.
Not too sure Punk was destructive – the concept, in Britain anyway, was that if you could make a noise you could be in a band and make a noise was what they did. Bands eventually broke up because of their limitations, what with not having much in the way of training or refusing to bend to the record companies wishes. Punk could be described as mid 70’s performance art, a period piece against glam rock and fashion.
You want destructive bands try The Who with Townsend and Moon kicking drums and guitars to pieces.
snafu1854
On this day, The Examiner prints Alfred Lord Tennyson’s poem “The Charge of the Light Brigade,” which commemorates the courage of 600 British soldiers charging a heavily defended position during the Battle of Balaklava, in the Crimea, just six weeks earlier. Tennyson had been named poet laureate in 1850 by Queen Victoria.
1916 actor Kirk Douglas born.
1917
Jerusalem surrenders to British troops
On the morning of this day in 1917, after Turkish troops move out of the region after only a single day s fighting, officials of the Holy City of Jerusalem offer the keys to the city to encroaching British troops.
The British, led by General Edmund Allenby, who had arrived from the Western Front the previous June to take over the command in Egypt, entered the Holy City two days later under strict instructions from London on how not to appear disrespectful to the city, its people, or its traditions. Allenby entered Jerusalem on foot—in deliberate contrast to Kaiser Wilhelm s more flamboyant entrance on horseback in 1898—and no Allied flags were flown over the city, while Muslim troops from India were dispatched to guard the religious landmark the Dome of the Rock.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/jerusalem-surrenders-to-british-troops
snafuThe first American in space, three orbits in five hours…
John Glenn, a freckle-faced son of Ohio who was hailed as a national hero and a symbol of the space age as the first American to orbit Earth, then became a national political figure for 24 years in the Senate, died on Thursday in Columbus, Ohio. He was 95.
His death was announced on Twitter by Gov. John Kasich of Ohio.
snafu1967.
Robert Henry Lawrence, Jr., one of the first black astronauts, entered the corps in June 1967. He had a bright future ahead of him, but never made it into space. He began his training and was putting his experience as a pilot and chemist to work as he also trained on support aircraft.
Several months after he began his astronaut training, Lawrence was a passenger on a training flight aboard an F104 Starfighter jet when it made a too-low approach and hit the ground. Lawrence died instantly during the December 8 mishap. It was a tragic loss to the country, and to his wife and young son. He was awarded a Purple Heart posthumously for his service to his country.
http://space.about.com/cs/deceasedastronaut/a/rhlawrencebio.htm
snafuA question about the viability of long term display…there are many ships in the U.S. that have been on display for years…The Queen Mary in Los Angeles, the Iowa-class battleships since their most recent retirement some 30 years ago, and of course the various carriers mentioned in this thread.
Also worth noting is a recent television program about the
USS Arizona which famously lies beneath the surface. The national park service recently allowed drones to photograph inside the wreck and found erie sights including an officers uniform still hanging in his statehood.
So the basic structure of the ship is sound (aside from battle damage).If these ships can survive being on in the water for years, why not ships in the UK? Surely it’s not the climate..after all ships are made out of sterner stuff than autos or static aircraft.
Or are the oceans saltier in the UK? 🙂
Not sure.
Had it described to me as more moisture in the atmosphere here, presumably more containing salt too, but industrial pollution – acid rain – was a thing too. Obviously there are large parts of the American continent that have a dry atmosphere, but there must also be areas that have a damp and possibly salty climate.
About 25-30 years ago a couple of mates and I encountered a sign being put up as we cycled the coast and paths, as we did when the weather was good and we had nothing better to do – homework, that sort of thing. Skip forward to this year and I walked past this particular sign about three weeks ago whilst out walking the kids; it was leaned against the posts that it had originally been attached to – the screws had obviously been corroded away from the tell-tale stains on the posts, and it hadn’t been like that (i.e. broken) when we walked that route a couple of months before. So it might be said that iron screws in a marshlands-type climate will not last 30 years. Yes, I realise that the sign might have been subjected to some assistance in separation from its posts by some passing yobs, or it might have been knocked down before and the attachments replaced, but I would like to feel that this was its first and only detachment.
Additionally – if you’ve ever had an Italian car from any point up to the mid 1990s…you’ll know that bodywork can be corroded beyond belief within a few years. And that from a country that is surrounded by seawater on three sides.
snafuWhatever, it would be cheaper than shipping it to Duxford.
I am not sure about Warrior – she was made from rather thick iron – but the Victory is about as original as some of those Spitfires rebuilt from data plates and, similarly, is not in water (other than when it rains). Trincomalee has a teak hull, and is in water. Cavalier is in a flooded dry dock, which might help (when drained) when maintenance is required. Alliance is out of the briney. Caroline is afloat and said to be in ‘excellent’ condition. Courageous is in dry dock. Gannet has a wooden hull and is moored. The M.33 is in dry dock. LCT 7074 is not in the water at the moment, and appears likely to be preserved ashore. Unicorn is preserved in excellent condition ‘in ordinary’, having been to sea once, under tow, and never seeing service. Ocelot is in a dry dock.
Others, like X24, Expunger, Holland 1, and the Bibers at IWM Lambeth and RN Submarine Museum, are preserved ashore.
snafuBack on topic.
He believed in Father Christmas, every year whenever the Xmas music started to be played…
Greg Lake, who fronted both King Crimson and Emerson, Lake and Palmer, has died aged 69.
One of the founding fathers of progressive rock, the British musician is known for songs including In The Court Of The Crimson King and I Believe in Father Christmas.
He died on Tuesday after “a long and stubborn battle with cancer”, said his manager.
snafuSorry, I guess I must have imagined HMS Belfast then, or HMS Warrior, or the SS Great Britain, or the Cutty Sark?
You simply cannot just write-off something because of its size; which is bigger HMS Illustrious or the museum at RAF Cosford? Or RAF Hendon? Or IWM Duxford?
Illustrious is made of a material that does not like long term contact with the substance it had to float upon, which required lots of barrier (paint, mainly) between the two. Cosford, Hendon and Duxford need upkeep, sure, but you could leave their superstructure alone for fifty-odd years and their state would remain fairly decent, whereas Illustrious would require salvage (possibly twice, more if you didn’t preserve it between dips).
snafuHe has been a flag waver for Farage. Does that not count for anything?
snafuWhy does everyone have a pop at the Royal Navy at the moment!! How about consider the positives for once? A major re-equipment programme that has seen the Merlin Mk2 and now Mk4 coming into service, Wildcat and in the near future the F35B which is an increase in capability compared to the Harrier. The new carriers! Biggest we have ever had and the new Type 26 Frigate and General Purpose Frigate which as planned will grow the size of the fleet! Then there’s the new patrol vessels, RFA’s, submarines all on order too!! Things take time but the future looks very prosperous for the Royal Navy!!
Try the MoD.
And maybe it is the gap between something leaving service and its replacement coming into service that is being ‘popped’ at – the carriers and their fixed wing complement being a good example. Or reducing ‘x’ number of destroyers down to a third or so, frigates too. And what does the size of the new carriers have to do with anything – how many other ships will need to be paid off to reserve each time HMS QE sets sail? Which brings the question what will we put on board it anyway, since the number of aircraft has been reduced or will be delayed in delivery.
Submarines are all nukes, yes lots on the horizon – but how will we dispose of them? Devonport can only hold so many, which might explain the lack of space for HMS Plymouth… HMS Ocean is shortly to be lost to the fleet, without replacement unless you count the idea that HMS PoW will be ‘enhanced’ for Royal Marine service (which might mean no replacement for ten years, until QE goes in for refit), the Albion class are being reduced to alternate periods of ‘extended readiness’ – possibly to help crew QE? MCMs are elderly and appear to be without replacement at the moment, and the current patrol vessels are either small and utilised by the RNR for training, or larger and seemingly unavailable to patrol (or patrolling abroad, replacing frigates in the Caribbean maybe) when the Russians sail through the Channel.
I can remember when the public were told that Britain needed a minimum of 50 frigates, and now we don’t even have half that number in combined destroyers and frigates. Our destroyers and their potential capabilities are diminished by recent revelations of problems across the class (embarrassing to be towed back into port, eh?) and the youngest of our frigates is well into the second half of its second decade, so probably due for an influx of wear’n’tear problems – again – across the fleet.
Got to go, depressing myself.
snafuRoosevelt declared war on Japan with his Days of Infamy speech. Britain also declared war after Hong Kong was attacked, 1941.
John Lennon was shot dead, 1980.
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