Y-20 Baconits a proxy war
if anyone is going to remove anyone it’ll be through their puppets:
if US wants to remove Russia, they will simply supply SAMs to all rebels not named ISIS or Al-Nusery school.
if Russia wants to remove US, they will keep bombing anyone not Assad.
Turkey will keep bombing Kurds
and no one is really bombing ISIS
Y-20 Bacon
Y-20 Baconlol
A blast from the past, for teh lulz.
lol. More Bushisms..i mean Asakurisms
The facets are a function of the (shaped) APU inlets slanting outwards, differing from the 2 preceding prototypes where they were slanting inwards. Facets are also discernable on the starboard (L) inlet, which is in shadow (note shadow of aircraft on the tarmac) and not as sharply focused as the port (R which is in direct daylight. Also, notwithstanding the fact the starboard APU is a different shape to the port.
Given a dull, overcast day I would highly doubt such shadow effects could result in such sharp, structured shapes on the port if it was a smooth, uniform surface a la ’51’ & ’52’. In fact, the lighting/shadow conditions probably highlight the shapes. Besides, the visible reflections have blurry edges.
I think it’s great they’re paying such attention to the ‘small fish’, having fried the “bigger fish” probably around a decade ago.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?113341-Pak-Fa-Thread-episode-19&p=1850381#post1850381
Thanks for your recent plethora of information, including unequivocal and official confirmation of the existence of the so-called ‘banana ducts’.
many more about the ever changing nature of the ducks (with a K), random non-existing shapes, etc
sad thing is he really believes it. our poor weeaboo is the Palin of the Pak-Fa thread.
Y-20 BaconI would not expect some hypothetical 1-vs-1 comparison here, I think it was a purely strategic decision, an entry ticket to worldwide aerospace market for Turkey.
Not only did TUSAS get a license for LHTEC CTS800, but more importantly TAI/ASELSAN got a chance to develop indigenous hardware (avionics, mission computers, weapons system, HMCS, self-protection suite). They are also free to integrate whatever weapons they want (Spike, Hellfire, UMTAS ATGM, CIRIT, Stinger…)
But perhaps the most interesting of all are full marketing and IP rights for the T129 platform, incl. export to third parties. What’s there not to like? 🙂
those are good tech transfers and right to market. sounds like the A129-T129 relationship is like the M-346-Yak130.
however do you know if there are no compete zones established or theoreticallyc an the A-129 compete with the T129 in the same market?
Y-20 BaconWrong. I occasionally learn new things (hopefully that’s why everyone comes here), but I avoid “Airplane A” vs. “Airplane B” threads for the reasons I listed above. Your opinions on me are just that……yours.
again being elitist. you must have asspergers, autism or something.
the original post was talking about the ADV’s troubled history in terms of operationability and maintainance which forced the Saudis and Italians to opt for F-15s and other things
but you keep raging about airplane a vs airplane b threads from a bygone era.
Y-20 BaconY-20, I’m not being elitist. I’m simply stating a fact. I’ve been on this forum for a very long time now, and I constantly see debates (if you wish to call them that…..normally they devolve into arguments and shouting matches) comparing one aircraft to another and much of the information presented is either inaccurate or flat out made-up to suit someone’s personal tastes.
and yet you keep coming back. either it means you really love this forum or you’re a masochist. either is fine 😉
at the end of the day the f-14/15 and ADV question is relevant because 1. The RAF seriously considered them to meet the needs of intercepting Soviet bombers. 2. Saudis also ended up doing the same thing. In case you didn’t know, they were an ADV operator. 3. I guess we can toss out the italians.. they thought the ADV would be easy to operate..didn’t.. ended up throwing them away and going for the F-16s they rejected earlier
When I was much younger, I’m fairly certain I was guilty of that because I was ignorant to the more accurate information that is available (or not available as is often the case). As I result, I try not to make uninformed statements of things I’m unsure about.
when you were young, you had a hard on for slat intake jets like F-4, J-8, MiG-23 and would go off about how they’re still relevant today.
you should meet PLA-MKII.. he’s a nice young lad who has taken up your mantle, but instead opting for jh-7 and j-7s
Y-20 BaconThe main issue of the airframe was that it was too small for the ambitious range goal set for the AI24 radar (180+ km detection for bomber-sized targets). The nose diameter has dictated an array visibly smaller than the one of an APG-63. The radar was furthermore plagued by then-immature digital processing technology and has biten its designers in their a$$ once again later when it has doggedly resisted integration of AMRAAM as a replacement of Skyflash. The AMRAAM and the Foxhunter have hated each other so much that the CSP of the latter completely refused to provide mid-course updates which rendered the AIM-120 not a bit more effective than any SARH missile.
One stiff-necked ba$tard, indeed
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thanks for that info. didn’t realize how small it was (smaller than even the old F-18!).
far smaller than other interceptors of its time like F-14, Russian fox series or flagon series
I guess it is no surprise the Saudis and Italians were not so impressed with the radar range and maintainance issues associated with it.
Y-20 BaconNATO ROE’s in Syria are laughable and basically designed to ensure no progress. Assad forces are fighting Grozny style battles. They need everything in front of them “made level with the earth” as the Russians like to say. US targeted pinpricks of 2 dudes with a DSHK on a Toyota arent changing anything on the ground. The Russians will literally remove entire grid squares from the map if they remember what the hell they are doing from Chechnya. A couple months of Grozny style bombing and you will see progress. At the very least sniping at SAA forces will be made a lot harder when all the rubble piles are blasted into craters. The Russians really need to teach the SAA how to properly demolish a city. The fact that they are are leaving rubble piles and not setting demolition charges as they go — leaving sniper nests for the next day — is part of why this is taking 4 years. The SAA needs bulldozers and engineering vehicles more than jets almost.
And you dont really need all that many aircraft. In Chechnya at the peak of fighting the Russians had only 60-70 helicopters available and these were a mix of Hips and Hinds. The number of deployed strike aircraft wasnt much larger than what’s in Syria now but they did a lot of sorties around the clock and they didnt have the Su-34!
hooray for collateral damage! bomb everything! that’ll definitely make locals support Assad
Y-20 BaconI always thought Tornado ADV was worthy of protecting vast tracks of glacial wasteland. Canada and Iceland would have been good places for it. Maybe even Australia. But then again F-14 or F-15 would have been even better. 🙂
you’re not too far off.
I just read a book:
British Aircraft Corporation: A History
By Stephen Skinner
in which it states that the RAF actually preferred the F-15 to do the job! here I thought it was the F-14 but I was wrong.
Y-20 BaconTotall number of Su-35 will be much less and Russians will move to 5th gen sooner then later otherwise they will lose international market to China. Who would like to spent 50-70 million for Su if they can get J31?
i don’t see Rossiya exporting Pak-fa to anyone other than India, just like J-20 to China or F-22 to Murica.
the Russkies need to make a low-end jet in the range of the J-31.
Y-20 BaconSo now how does this work in Syria?
Factions on the ground:
Assad government
Anti-assad moderate rebels (supported by the West/Arabs)
IsisUs coalition strikes
IsisRussian coalition strikes
Anti assad rebels
IsisBy the way how can they discriminate which is Isis, and which are the anti assad rebels (which itself has many2 groups)
more detailed version
US Bombs: ISIS, Al-Nusra. Supports other factions. Anti-Assad
Turks Bomb: mostly Kurds. Supports other factions, but secretly supports ISIS. Anti-Assad
Russia will Bomb: ISIS, Al-Nusra, Kurds, Other factions. Pro-Assad
Assad Bombs: Everyone not Assad
PLA-MKII: Pro-ISIS and Al-Nusra. Anti-Assad.
half of members here: Don’t care who Russia bombs, I want to see cool toys.
Y-20 BaconYes … a denial !
are you secretly hoping they buy chinese instead?
Y-20 BaconOh so common for aircraft to be judged against criteria they were never designed for. ?
no need to be elitist, if you bothered reading, the question was never about aircraft being compared to each other but being able to do the same job, but better. duh.
basic wikipedia for you
Tornado ADV:
The Tornado ADV had its origins in an RAF requirement (Air Staff Requirement 395 or ASR.395), which called for a long-range interceptor to replace the Lightning F6 and Phantom FGR2.[1] The requirement for a modern interceptor was driven by the threat posed by the large Soviet long-range bomber fleet, in particular the supersonic Tupolev Tu-22M.[2]
F-14:
Beginning in the late 1950s, the U.S. Navy sought a long-range, high-endurance interceptor to defend its carrier battle groups against long-range anti-ship missiles launched from the jet bombers and submarines of the Soviet Union. The U.S. Navy needed a Fleet Air Defense (FAD) aircraft with a more powerful radar, and longer range missiles than the F-4 Phantom II to intercept both enemy bombers and missiles
Designs and approaches were more or less similar.
Y-20 Baconsince we’re discussing things..
I was always wondering how good the ADV variant was and how useful it was.
the UK had considered the F-14 for air defense needs but opted to build an interceptor out of the IDS.
Back then people here were like “no, but the ADV did its job”.
and perhaps it did, but was it the best choice?
wikipedia seems to have been updated by some one and the information was
– During Balkans operations, suffered from maintainability and servicability issues
– Saudis were not happy with the ADVs and converted their ADV orders to IDS. F-15s promptly replaced the ADV in the air defense role
Y-20 BaconThe sanctions have not been lifted yet, were they?
i thought a number of sanctions were lifted in july no.
the SSJ makes more sense for Iran than Su-30s.. the sanctions really limited how they acquire commercial aircraft, and Russia hasn’t produced anything new or competitive in the commercial sector in decades.
a new airliner, even though its a baby fart size, is much needed to generate income.
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