Is the final thing going look like the above or will they have a fly-off of different variants? (23DMU, 24DMU & rumored 25DMU)

lol, its basically f22 derivative vs f23 derivative.
what is up with east asian aviation and their lack of originality.
at least russia has something unique looking

Switzerland to cancel Gripen purchase

The most recent polls show that a majority of Swiss voters oppose the plan to buy the Swedish Gripen fighters, which would cost the Alpine country 3.1 billion Swiss francs ($3.5 billion, 2.6 billion euros).Supporters of the Gripen deal underline that in exchange for the sale, Saab and its engine supplier are contractually bound to sign business deals with Swiss firms worth 2.5 billion francs over the next decade.

The ministry of defense is reconsidering alternatives to the Gripen such as the American made F-16s as well as upgrading the current fleet of American made F-18 fighter jets. The Rafale, which was the runner up behind the Gripen, will not be considered due to concerns over costs. The Eurofighter Typhoon, built by a consortium of European companies, will also be eliminated as the type is reaching end of production and being phased out of the inventories of several air forces.

Here’s the crux with going four engines. You need electronic controls to maximize life and minimize maintenance, plus they have to be pod-encapsulated to create quick swaps that allow minimal down time. You have to make a pair of J85’s less cost and maintenance than a single F125. At current market rates the engines are substantially cheaper, but the life expectancy of J85 is a fraction of F125 and fuel costs are favorable to the F125 when you consider the big picture. Your main advantage of J85 is cost to buy so you have to figure out how to make a pair justified over a single, twice. The J85 in quads will be cheaper than a single F404, M88, or EJ200. The four engines will never have the efficiency performance-wise so it’s all about the justification.

I would like to see a 5th gen design using two top-down engine lay outs instead of side by side.
all of the current 5th gen design falls into two categories

1. fat pancakes that are thinner, sleeker, but also very lengthy. i.e. yf-23 and pak-fa
2. fat hippos that are not as lengthy, but are very wide and boxy and draggy. i.e. f-22, f-35, and their chinese cousins

only the x-32 went for the “short” but tall route.

Well, it’s better to supply two very diverse models that to only minor extent are competitng, than to supply only one (high-end) model. Assume for a moment that Gripen E had never been developed.

What would Switzerland have done? Definitely not bought the Typhoon.
What would Brazil have done? Definitely not bought the Typhoon.
What would Sweden have done? Definitely not bought the Typhoon.

You see, it’s already a win for the European companies.

hey don’t mention the Typhoon here. You might attract this certain poster here who’s going nuts in the Rafale thread

i like Poland, and i like the M-346/Yak-130, but isn’t a plane of that type capable within Poland’s own domestic aviation industries?
I’m surprised they didn’t just make their own (perhaps slightly less capable, but still able to fulfill requirements)

topspeed sez, not only can you do it with less than $100, it can be made smaller than a Mustang!

Yeah exactly. Customers are ingnorant idiots 😡
I wonder what India had in mind when they chose the underdeveloped-overpriced typhoon instead of the reasonably priced omnirole rafale :eagerness:

don’t mind him, he has Rafale fever, as I commented elsewhere.
The spirit of Dassault must haunt him at night
“Le Rafale est omnirole, ce baguette c’est chouette”