Y-20 BaconUnless Poland wants to engage in U.S., British, French save the world style fighting, they would be better building or buying an top rank interceptor to keep their airspace free of intruders.
probably because they believe the Russians want to do Katyn 2, that they continue to invest in their military compared to their neighbors.
Y-20 BaconThe aircraft itself is surely not longer, even if – as totoro mentioned – these sponsoons are longer. Overall here are the changes spotted so far ….
– a Raptor-style light-grey colour scheme,
– the engines’ diverterless supersonic intakes appear to have been re-designed, perhaps to improve the radar cross section characteristics.
– an additional inner canopy frame similar to the F-35
– clipped tails and canards (which now seem to be integrated much better with the forward fuselage)
– re-designed wheel bay doors
– a reduction in the size of the wing actuators
– a new frameless wide-angle holographic head-up display
– an electro optical targeting system protruding under the front fuselage
– several new dielectric panels around the front fuselage
– wider and longer sponsoons/tail stings (where the tails are mounted)
– redesigned LERX with no longer an arc but straight leading edge
– probably a redesigned rear fuselage featuring a wider and deeper “ditch” between both engines.
– tire fairings for the main landing gear are larger (but it may just be that the re-designed LERX which intersects it is less voluminous than it used to be)
– a small ventral bump of unknown function has moved from the port side of the rear fuselage to starboard.
– squared rather than round nose landing gear lights+ following these added images, it seems as if the flaps on the trailling edge are different too and maybe the weapons bay is longer.
Did I miss anything ?
interesting.. the engine wedge has a deeper “wedgie”.
perhaps for a future tail hook?
Y-20 BaconIn no universe is the PT-91 a modern tank.
not the most modern, but apparently still being offered and still being upgraded so its fare game
just like how China continues to produce upgraded variants stemming from the T-55, Ukraine with the T-80, and Russia with the T-72.
Japan is kind of a special case of extremely expensive (due to production pace) vehicles that likely won’t ever be seen outside Japan.
Type 90 is cheaper than Leopard2A6
Type 10 is expensive, but still cheaper than LeClerc when it was offered.
Y-20 BaconIt’s not about “Russian” Ukrainians. Ukrainians themselfs are split. Some are pro-Russia others are either anti-Russian or majority however are simply neutral and just want to get on with their lives and have a decent goverment for a change. And the current goverment(illegaly) in “charge” isn’t exactly what they want either to them it’s basicly orange clowns period 2.0. I think Putin counted on them to go along with the pro-russian group. that hasn’t happend. At this point they are probably very much sick and tired of both sides. Though if the current goverment or the right sector and Co baboons do something stupid, they very well will.
Overall a ****** up situation. And my heart goes out to them.
JSR stop posting, please.
BTW TR1 whats your take on this.
its all about money. if you can convince the pro-Russian side that life will get better and there will be more jobs.. they will switch.
likewise the reverse too.
Y-20 BaconSome of those countries haven’t built any tanks for a while.
Italy – Ariete production ended 2002
France – last Leclerc built 2007, though production facilities kept
UK – Challenger 2 2002
Poland – no new production currently, I thinkLeopard 2 was out of production for a while, though it’s now resumed. Factory was occupied with upgrades. There’s a lot of that going on. Factory still extant, producing batches when new orders come in, but otherwise keeping going with upgrades.
didn’t know about LeClerc.
Italy – Last I recall, they were trying to make Ariete C2
Poland – they were producing PT-91s as late as 2009. They are now experimenting with two new MBT design that’s 30 tons. its a light tank
Ukraine – the Thai order is recent so naturally it’d be slow. They completed the Pakistan order.
However like the Leopard, many of these tanks that went out of production could be resumed, much more easily than aircraft production that is halted. The only thing is upgrading them to relevance, especially when you have a new generation of tanks coming out..i.e. Altay, Black Panther, Type 10, the tank Poland is making but I can’t remember the name
Y-20 BaconTrue, but Stalin was Georgian and chief of Party in Kiev was Khrushchev, who was Ukrainian, when this hunger happened. After Stalin Khrushchev and Brezhnev were both Ukrainians.
Khruschev is Russian, but grew up in Ukraine.
Brezhnev was a self hating Ukrainian.
Y-20 Baconfighters are becoming too complicated and expensive to produce alone.
thats why tanks are interesting. you got: US, Russia, China, Italy, France, Germany, Poland, Israel, Japan, Korea, Ukraine, making modern battle tanks. lots of diversity. not sure if UK is still producing Challenger 2s..although those were pretty great tanks too.
Y-20 BaconIt doesn’t count when the West does it. Americans being all outraged is the funniest thing of all, but they are not the only ones.
Though I am not happy with any of this. I was hoping the Ukrainian protests would just mean all Russian “aid” for the country would stop, and Russia could watch from the sidelines and wave.
Now this mess…..
Well hopefully An-70 is dead for good, and purchases from Motor-Sich wind down ASAP.
I agree. Russia should’ve just stopped all trade, loans, etc with Ukraine and make it a clean divorce. Build more pipelines through Belarus instead.
An-70? I thought you loved it.
Y-20 BaconYes indeed, because I’m incredibly renowned for aggressively stating the Typhoon should be selected in every thread there is when it comes to other countries looking for a new fighter. I’m sure you can provide examples.
sure can.
Any thread with Rafale in it 🙂
Y-20 BaconWe also had a J-10B with the same reference point if I recall, and we had a series of much earlier pictures of the J-20 using an aircraft tow with known dimensions as a reference point, and one instance where we assumed the J-20’s engine nozzle was the same size as a Flanker’s and superimposed the two together. The range of estimates we’ve had over the years has spanned around 19-22 meters from all those different pictures. I think I also did a margin of error for the satellite pictures, and I don’t think the J-20 broke 21.5 meters including the greatest margins. Given the range of estimates, statistically speaking, it’s very likely that the J-20’s actual length sits somewhere around the middle between 19 and 22 meters, but there tends to be a convergence of around 20-21 meters with most of the estimates, so I would say that’s where the sweet spot is.
the only thing causing the difference is the pitot tube, so we can create a reasonable estimate that’s probably 1-1.5 meters more or less from the Flanker, which makes is conclude that its close in length to the Flanker, no matter how people like to spin it and exaggerate that its much smaller.
Y-20 BaconIt would’ve been nice to have this thread without the nonsense.
F-35 would certainly be the favoured candidate given the rumoured timescale. Other contenders Gripen E/F, Rafale, KF-X.
For those more familiar with the political scene, is there any possibility of PAK FA being considered?
thread should be fine as long as EELightning stays out of it, which is likely since I doubt Poland has any interest in Typhoons 😉
but if they can’t afford F-35s what are the options?
Russian: They’re still bitter over Katyn and the airplane crash, but they opted to keep their MiG-29s going as well as other Russian military purchases. outside but small chance
Korean: Could be cheaper but the Koreans don’t even know what they want
Turkey: I think Turkey would finish their 5th gen aircraft before Korea does
Sweden: Aren’t they working with Turkey?
China: J-31 a realistic choice in terms of costs, but not strategic.
http://theaviationist.com/2014/02/23/polish-air-force-new-fighters-f35/
By Jacek Siminski
Poland about to buy fifth generation fighter jets. Which ones is still unclear.
During a conference held on Feb. 6, 2014, Ministry of National Defence announced Poland will buy 64 fifth generation jets.
The new aircraft will be delivered between 2022 and 2030. In the meanwhile the Su-22 Fitters, initially set to be retired by 2015, will be modernized and kept flyable until the new planes arrive.
The sum allocated to the procurement of the future aircraft is around 2.8B Polish Zloty (930M USD).
Considered the strong ties with Lockheed Martin (the Polish Air Force already operates the F-16 Block 52+), the first candidate for the role of Warsaw’s future aircraft is the F-35. But since F-35A has a pricetag around 100 USD million apiece, the purchase of the Joint Strike Fighter is quite unlikely.
The Lightning II is very expensive, and would seriously hamper the rest of the Polish Armed Forces modernization plan, which includes new helicopters, submarines, new air defenses and anti-missile shield.
Y-20 BaconI am glad that you could buy this kind of “Nothing comes close” marketing. And I am sure that if you are willing to buy it, you could also be intersted in buying a piece or another that it happens I am in exclusive charge for sale at very intersting prices just for a few more days.
Special discounts apply for buying at least 2 of the 3 presented items.
I hope that you could appreciate this friendly skeptimism towarrd what you posted and on a more serious note please before of discussing of any future Mig-41:
1) Can you please give us an update on the status of the more basic Mig-35? As an aviation enthusiast I could welcome a concept like the Mig-41 you tried to describe above, but I would love to fly at a certain safe altitude before reaching 40 k feet. at the moment Mikoyan Gurevich seems to fly at avery low level, even vs. Sukhoi is reaching right now.
2) Can you give us any reason for Russia spending bilions in discutible military concepts after Soviet Union collapsed also for a non sustinable military expenditures? Is Russia going to make the same errors that USSR did just a few decades ago? Oh and please don’t mention me anything about Ukraina. Before anything like the supposed Mig-41 would have the maiden flight, Mr. Putin would be probably already been proplerly mummified and sanctified.
when it comes to mack8
extreme optimism when it comes to Russia
extreme pessimism when it comes to the US
Y-20 BaconI don’t know why anyone would rejoice over that.
Stacked engines provided consistency for airflow between the two engines with a single, less problematic shock cone than what was possible by using side by side engines. Jet fighter designs were in their infancy and the engineering limitations were quickly evolving by the next decade.
Too bad they never figured out how to squeeze rb199’s into them while stringing out their useful lives.
I always felt a two engined 5th gen aircraft could benefit from a stacked design.
Y-20 BaconWasn’t Poland a satellite already for 50 years. I bet they don’t wanna go to moon.
lol. clever
Somehow I figure after massive land gains in the west after WW II Poland might have revenge against USSR in mind ( which doesn’t exist so.. ). OTOH I am no expert in polish affairs. What happened in KATYN definitely won’t stay in Katyn as we all know ( old phrases won’t apply ). I think they just want to have outstanding AF to protect them from future conflicts and stay in touch with developing techniques.
conflicts with who?
Y-20 BaconUmm…what? I did not mention the J-20 at all. And if you mean by “all I really have is the J-20” as all China really has is the J-20, 1) Clearly not, it has the J-31 too, 2) I AM A US CITIZEN.
that’s nice, but no one ever asked you what country your from and no one really gives a flying donkey balls either
second, j-31 was mentioned. eyes need to get checked as you’re replying to things that don’t exist.
I was asking specifically about whether depending on RAM more than shaping would increase lifetime maintenance costs. .
to which you never really clarified why. I’ve already laid out the shapes of the very limited number of 5th gen fighters for you, but you’re just too clingy about me trying to go after you over something I don’t understand. too much victim complex?
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