JSRSo what? Max useful load is allegedly similar.
Empty weight is still not released, but they are officilly two aircrafts designed with similar requirements and performance.
They are only 30 years and a lot of composites apart….
lighter avionics and new engines close the gap. Tu-214 is already designed with excess fuel tanks. no such design in drawing board at moment for MS21. It will be post 2025 before it can be certified. The best option is always a transport like IL-476 or IL-214 for AWACS or ASW as they have more volume, more rugged and aerodynamics are not impacted to same extent.
Only Airbus and Boeing prefer civil airlines as its cheaper for them.
JSRSounds fair enough to me. Top speed = a big drag these days, and accelleration is the new black. Has been this way for quite some time now.
this specification of export Su-35. I expect Ruaf Su-35 to surpass these figures. T-50 has twice supersonic range of Flanker. I am expecting its top speed above mach 3.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/news/company/?id=3470
Now the company is completing preliminary tests of the Su-35. The aircraft fully proves the claimed characteristics of the avionics and demonstrates super-maneuverable capabilities. The maximum ground-level speed attained is 1,400 km/h, speed at altitude – 2,500 km/h, and ceiling – 19,000 m. The target detection range in the air-to-air mode is over 400 km. This markedly exceeds the similar characteristics of in-service aircraft. The size of a target detected in the air-to-surface mode is up to 10 m. The onboard optic detection and ranging station detects and simultaneously tracks several targets at a range of more than 80 km. The complex is ready for pre-operational trials, announced the Director General of Sukhoi Mikhail Pogosyan today at the press conference at the Farnborough International Airshow-2010 Press Center
JSRIt is possible that they magically decided to change requirements since then and decided the extra weight for the extra speed (that is realistically never going to be used, like pointed out) is worth it. And developed serial composites that are able to tackle the temperature while at it. But there is no proof of any of that so we have to go by what little, and maybe somewhat old, info that we have. Because there is 0 evidence the speed is M2.3+ or whatever, and with no proof of any kind… then that is just faith. And that is silly. 🙂
I choose evidence myself, not some ill placed faith/hope or whatever.
Why not put same advice to Su-35. I am sure lowering to speed to mach 1.6 will bring down its weight.
JSRWhat requirement could it possible be other than top speed? If it can’t fly at M2.15 because of too “weak” tail then it can’t fly faster. Hence mach 2 must be absolute top speed.
And the last two paragraphs just makes it even clearer.
Those quotes long passed time and I don’t think it has anything to do with current prototypes. More like disinformation.
JSRMTA.
http://sputniknews.com/business/20150704/1024203431.html
He noted that Russia will be in “dire need” of a new middle-range multipurpose transport aircraft starting from early 2020s, when Antonov planes exploitation cycle will be coming to an end. He added that Russia will proceed with the development even if India withdraws from the project.“We will be moving forward anyway because Russia needs this plane,” Belyakov said
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20150704/1024203431.html#ixzz3f5BOSNst
JSRGetting tired of people using wing loading as some magical short hand to gauge performance. The Su-35 has greater wing loading than the Su-27. Are we suggesting that it’s a downgrade?
Dont beleive any thing written by Obligx or Andrxx. According to them 30 year old F-15C can pull 9g and weighs only 13.3 tons but Boeing newest F-18E weighs 15.5ton made with composite materials and limit to 7.6G. Any plane that carries external fuel tank throught out life has very limited life for higher G. F-15C will simply develop airframe crack. the only fighter that can maintain higher G continously through out airframe life is Su-35. much higher titanium content than Su-27.
JSRCare to substantiate a little bit? Sounds awfully lot like wishful thinking. Where goes to line between sufficiently large resources for building a VLO plane and non-sufficient resources? And how do you determine it? Russia has the 3rd largest military expenditure in the world with arguably the second largest military industrial complex and a large educated population. The economy as a whole is pretty much equal to Germany on purchasing power parity which according to US National Intelligence Council provides better insight into fundamental economic strength than nominal figures. And considering Russian military expenditures are almost completely an internal economic activity, it is even more true in this context. Another major fact to understand is that comparing dollar figure budgets is very misleading as for example in Russia they don’t pay the engineers in dollars but in rubles and the wages in Russia were some 4-5x lower than in the US on dollar terms even before the ruble lost half of its value. Which means that with 10 billion dollars you can hire a lot more scientists and engineers to work for you in Russia than in the United States.
Just in case you or somebody else wants to use the misguided brain drain argument. The recent OECD report showed that Russian Federation has had low emigration rates of the highly-skilled and practically every major European state suffers from much higher brain drain.
OECD is not capable of calculating real GDP. Just look at Turkey and Saudi GDP comparision and what actually they can afford.
Germany GDP is far far less than Russia. Russia supply critical things that make Germany GDP.
http://www.bulliondesk.com/palladium-news/focus-russian-exports-palladium-to-switzerland-jump-to-7-mth-high-jan-90870/
Russian palladium exports to Switzerland jump to 7-mth high in Jan –
http://www.palladiumcoins.com/autocatalysts.html
In this regard, a large European automobile manufacturer recently mandated a research and development effort to examine and advance palladium-based technology for diesel catalytic converters. The reason is apparent. In Europe, 44 percent of the cars built in 2003 were equipped with diesel engines and recent CAFÉ (fuel economy) standards announced by China, will ultimately result in a similar percentage of cars built by China’s surging car industry to be diesel. Thus, a growing concern over insufficient supplies of platinum to meet this growing diesel demand, placing urgency in finding a way to use palladium for this application
Now i am not even putting value in Military power for calculating GDP. Military power can put real embargos Sea, Air and Land. that can collapse a GDP in months if not days.
JSRCutting orders from what? . Did they signed orders that they are cutting. it will take some testing before they sign order.
Su-35 has become more refined and 5G fighter competitor. read the sukhoi press release.
JSRit is not maximum passenger but weight of technical equipment/larger fuel tanks that full size version aircraft is needed. TU-214 has MTOW of 108 tons while MS-21 is 80 tons.
JSRBut the USAF will mainly use the F-35 as a bomb truck, not for a2a missions — F-22 and the next fighter jet (the “6. gen” bird) will handle that.
Realistically, only China will have the resources to build a VLO plane at the level of the F-35; the others (including Russia) will not. And China may have the resources but so far seems not to have the capabilities. And if there is no VLO platform on “the other side” the F-35 reigns supreme. A 4.5 gen fighter will probably never get close to the F-35, making the dogfighting capabilities irrelevant.
Only Russia alone can afford and technical ability to built 5th or 6th generation (MIG-31 replacement ). China need Russia assistance just like it need it for heavy lift copter/Airliner and J-20 from engines to design influence of previous MIG-1.4X.
F-35 is not 5G fighter it cant supercruise at very high speed and altitude and it lacks TVC. Entire Ruaf will be built around TVC engine fighters with tactics built to fight from high altitude with big jamming pods.
Israel can afford only 36 F-35 when it could afford 300 F-15/F-16 previously. so i doubt F-35 production rate will be that high. Plus Arab countries may not afford or buy EU/Russian weopons. so prospects of F-35 is not great there either.
the biggest issue is demographics and dysfunctional funding. Russia with 170m real population is much better position to fund a 6G fighter than US with 450m (latin control over food chain) and China with 1.4b.
There is big limitation coming in water/energy supply in less than 10 years for the later two.
Read more at http://observer.com/2015/01/borscht-belt-will-israel-spurn-america-for-russia/#ixzz3eqo3oPYj
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The benefits to Israel are more complicated. On the one hand, a strong tie with Russia would provide Israel with comparable security guarantees as the U.S., but less diplomatic support
JSRHow would a next generation HMD and HOBS weapons help in a dogfight? :stupid:
As has been said over and over again, the F-35 is not designed to get into slow turning fights. Since someone brought up the F-22, it isn’t either. Clearly the F-22 has substantial capabilities there, but the F-22 was designed in the days before the AIM-9x. Experience in exercises has shown that the F-22 is an incredibly lethal fighter, but not because of its dogfighting capability. What makes the difference is its stealth and situational awareness.
F-22 was designed in days before AIM-9X. could they not predict future by looking at R-73 coming in early 1980s.
JSRThe Eurofighter packs two engines for a max thrust of 180kN. Rafale – 160kN. MiG-29 – 160kN. Super Hornet – 200kN. F-15E – 260kN.
Rafale has far less thrust than MIG-29 . MIG-29 thrust is same as Eurofighter.
JSR“Russia is the only real economy on this planet. start with developing from water resources to titanium valley to pipelines to world beating oil/gas/nuclear industry digging resources in many countries at lowest rates. economics is completely immune from Middleastern wars and global warming that can severly impact West.”
Russia is a beautiful place in many ways but reality is that its has a good military and nuclear sector, everything else it just a corrupt uncompetitive 3rd world standard. No offence I like Russia in many ways but this is the reality. The bad news is that these 2 sectors are to a large extent driven by non market/government purchases that are funded from oil. Russia is also desperately missing most advanced Know How in the oil & gas sector.
Above has the consequences that only high oil prices can secure the upgrades and future developments of the Russian aircraft industry.
corrupt third world countries cant built bridges and pipelines at record speed. look at those two bridges in validivostok. Only highly efficient and effective governance can make winter olympics in tropical climate. this high oil price is myth. Norway need it not Russia.
JSR.. I strongly doubt Russia will have the economy to develop such a fighter (PAK FA does not cut it IMHO) and China is still quite far behind. On verra.
Russia is the only real economy on this planet. start with developing from water resources to titanium valley to pipelines to world beating oil/gas/nuclear industry digging resources in many countries at lowest rates. economics is completely immune from Middleastern wars and global warming that can severly impact West.
Russia can certainly afford thousands of heaviest and longest ranges 5G fighters with longest range weopons.
JSRTrue, they will make good back up planes when the new planes, based maybe on MS-21 or Tu-214 come into service. Looks like Russian defence ministry is looking forward to the MS-21
Ideal platform will be Tu-214 with PD-14 engines. this will give 16 hours loiter time. MS-21 is smaller in size and not have that range.
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