TonyYes, because of the ring. For really religious sunnis it’s like he was wearing a peignoir and make-up or eating pork on camera. For you it’s just a ring, but for any devout sunni man it’s a strong sin and haram – what’s so hard to understand here? :stupid:
So you’re going to negate all the work done over the past few years and many trips to Syria by Jurgen Todenhofer because a really religious Sunni wouldn’t wear a ring? You are probably correct that someone strict (like say Bin Laden) wouldn’t, but how do you explain that I’ve seen religious Sunnis wearing not only rings but also flash watches (not as good as the $30,000 Breuget watch worn by Patriarch Kirill….photos here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126092/Watch-closely-Russian-church-apologises-Photoshop-fail-20-000-timepiece-disappears-wrist-Patriarch.html) as well as other jewellery!
It’s almost worth you emailing Todenhofer to ask if that chap was really a jihadi! Please let us know the answer if you have the time to check this!
if you’re talking about fake publicity shots for the jihadis, fake stories like covering kids in dust and fake blood, then the PR money spent by the Gulf states and America dwarfs spending by anyone else! They must think everyone is daft to accept their false narrative like they tried in 2013 with the sarin gas attack (supplied by Saudis to the jihadis) in Damascus they falsely tried to blame on the Syrian government as the pretext to launch air attacks on the Assad regime they are so desperate to topple.
TonyThis video looks like a fake. Apart from the fct he’s lokking pretty comical, IMO, he’s not a really religious muslim or not a muslim at all. And of course, he’s not a commander of such a strong islamic fanatics as AQ. See that ring on his left hand? Jewelry, especially gold/golden ones, is a strong ‘haram'(taboo, ban, prohibition) for muslim men, at least for sunnis.
Strange that our ‘journalamers’ didn’t know that – there is at least one muslim reporter on RT, Murad Gazdiev.
What! Fake because he looks funny and wears a wedding ring!
The German journalist Jurgen Todenhofer spent many months with the jihadis…..at least seven trips all documented in film….I just saw a film of life under ISIS with interviews with jihadists, many from Europe who were born and brought in Europe, including Belgium and France) on the VICE channel (multiple showings available on Sky cable channel 280 I believe) and they’re not hiding their horrible views….they are from diverse places from all over the place (most are non-Syrian imported jihadis) and just because that doesn’t conform to what you know of fanatics does not mean this interview with a reputable German journalist from a reputable German newspaper is fake!
TonyNothing from this change the fact that he’s completely right in his conclusions about US failed policy which borders on cooperation with Al-Qaeda, again.
FBW, you are unbelievable! Stop trying to defend the indefensible and stop trying to discredit an elected US senator just because he is telling the truth in this interview!
Which moderate “terrorists” do do you think America are training and arming? Why, it’s Al Qaeda….the same ones who did 9/11!
Al Nusra are Al Qaeda…..you know….the same ones that did 9/11…..the moderate “terrorists” Al Nusra Front has been renamed and re-badged as something else to avoid the bad stench of Nusra, but it’s still the same head-chopping loonies!
The getting of Assad, is among a list of countries the neo-cons want to take out and is outlined in the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), which has a list of countries they wanted to regime change…..who the hell are these guys to decide they can regime change sovereign states like Syria? This is Illegal both in international and US law!
Neo-cons like Richard Perle have been caught red-handed by the FBI passing secret info to a “foreign power” (just like Jonathan Pollard) but never prosecuted and ended up head of Defense Policy Board advising the Pentagon! (you couldn’t make it up!). He was also caught accepting payments from a foreign arms company while Assistant Secretary for Defense but said it was for work done before he was appointed even though paid after he was appointed! (again got off for this conflict of interest between the American people and his pocket)….he was caught by CIA Director Stansfield Turner in a security breach while working with the Armed Forces committee but was let off with a warning!…..how did he get so far in State and the Pentagon? Victoria Nuland and her neo-con husband Robert Kagen are still there!
It’s these neo-con loonies are trying to take out the secular Assad, who being from the Alawite minority sect protects other minorities like Christians and Yazidis and defends ancient archaeological sites from destruction from the nutjobs, who beheaded his 81-year old Head of Antiquities in Palmyra…full report here by the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33984006
The Neo-cons think nothing of using the lives of American soldiers and deaths of hundreds of thousands of local people and millions of refugees (collateral damage) to achieve their aims. Now you are trying to besmirch Richard Black….he is an elected Republican US senator for the past two decades, and a US Marine Colonel who served in Viet Nam and won the Purple Heart….he is telling the truth to the American people and the World and just because that doesn’t suit you, you say he is a religious Christian!….Even if he is a religious nutjob but that does not change a thing! It still does not change the wrong being done in Syria in causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands and millions of refugees in misery as a result of people who don’t give a monkeys for them while pursuing their dastardly aims at the cost of human lives….the neo-cons and Gulf kingdoms driving this dirty war by pumping in plenty of arms and paying non-Syrian jihadis to cause the death of hundred of thousands are the ones who should pay the bill for destroying a country and they should pay for the millions of refugees who have caused chaos all over Europe as a result of their dirty war !
By the way, the 95 tanks the senator says were used by the Nusra jihadis for the assault on Aleppo are the same Libyan tanks shipped through Turkey as confirmed by the Nusra commander to German journalist Jurgen Todenhofer in an interview published 26 September 2016 in the Kolner Stadtanzeiger (German newspaper in Cologne) with the commander of the al-Qaida branch Jabhat al-Nusra.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/09…-our-side.html
You know about the Israelis Druze (they can serve in the IDF) who beat to death a couple of jihadis being treated by Israeli medics on the Syrian border to heal up and go fight Assad when they found out they were Al Nusra who had attacked Druze villages in Syria? (it’s the report updated 6 July 2016 by the UK Daily Mail reporter embedded with Israeli commandos on the Syrian border.
The Israelis helping the jihadis on the basis of my enemy’s enemy is my friend (ISIS) are making a mistake that will come back to bite them as blowback is not nice, just like many people here on this forum warned in 2013 don’t help jihadis go to Syria to topple Assad because they will come back to Europe and use the butchery they learned on their Syrian trips on the streets here! It is being illegal both in international and US law to wage war on a sovereign state for no reason other than you don’t like its head of state and trying to kill its head of state is also illegal….. just like if the nutjobs tried to the same and take out UK Prime Minister Theresa May or US President Obama (Commander-in-Chief and supposed to be in charge of State and the Pentagon, but with the deep state who really is calling the shots? Certainly not the elected representatives of the American people like Congress and the President who might flip their lids if they had to explain the neo-con game in arming and training Al Qaeda who did 9/11 to take out the President of a sovereign state, Syria, which they have no right to do under international law and replace him with the same loony nutjobs as happened in Libya).
Even the Americans special forces training Nusra fighters don’t like it because it sticks in their craw to help people who hate America and did 9/11..
htmlhttps://sofrep.com/63764/us-special-forces-sabotage-white-house-policy-…
“Nobody believes in it. You’re like, ‘Fcuk this,’” a former Green Beret says of America’s covert and clandestine programs to train and arm Syrian militias. “Everyone on the ground knows they are jihadis. No one on the ground believes in this mission or this effort, and they know they are just training the next generation of jihadis, so they are sabotaging it by saying, ‘Fcuk it, who cares?’”
“I don’t want to be responsible for Nusra guys saying they were trained by Americans,” the Green Beret added.
The discredited neo-cons pushing this agenda in State and the Pentagons couldn’t believe their luck when the Gulf Kingdoms despots wanted Assad out of the way when he rejected the gas pipeline across Syria in 2009 and Assad signed up instead with Iran and Iraq to supply Europe with gas (mainly from the giant Pars gas field Iran shares with Qatar).
That “oasis of democracy”, the Gulf Wahabbhi Kingdoms are directly funding and arming their paid loonies to take out Assad, the head of a Sovereign country Syria……what right do they or the US have to do this? it’s illegal in both international and US law.
if you want to take out a nasty despot why not take out that nutjob Crown Prince Mohammad (at 31 the youngest defence minister in the world but with no wisdom or experience, educated wholly in Saudi which explains a lot….it was his car convoy (with hundreds of soldiers and police! Here the Prime Minister has just a couple of cars and outriders!) trying to force his way through crowds of Haj pilgrims that caused a stampede and death of thousands of pilgrims in the stampede in Mina, Mecca in 2015, but Saudi authorities imposed a media blackout on reporting the Prince’s presence in the area. To show the low calibre of these people, it is his sister Princess Hassa who fled Paris a few days ago after asking her bodyguard to kill a French workman for taking a photo of his work (as is normal nowadays of before and after) with full story here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3818232/Saudi-princess-fled-Paris-instructing-bodyguard-kill-decorator-named-hitman-arrested.html ) who is bombing the crap out of Houthi tribesmen in skirts, and bombing civilians and starving them to death as a weapon of war?
After two years of war in Yemen and a Saudi-led blockade lasting 18 months millions of people are slowly starving – some are already dying for lack of food. the effects of the Saudi blockade designed to starve people to death as a weapon of war are in this BBC report. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37429043
If you want to take out bad guys, take out the ones funding radical Wahhabi preaching in mosques all over the world and spreading their death cult hate all over the world.
Tony“… if the US did not stage the coup in Ukrainne (sic).” This is as psychotic and ludicrous a quote as I have ever seen.
Err…where have you been Gkozak?
Have you been living in a cave because you seemed to have missed the taped telephone conversation between Victoria Nuland, (deep) State Department, and the US Ambassador to the Ukraine in which she was caught, red handed, hand picking the Ukrainian government!
Nuland seemed more embarrassed that the Russians had managed to tape her indiscretions, including famously saying “fcuk the EU”! 😀 than she was by her interfering with the internal affairs of a sovereign country as she discussed who should be in the government after getting rid of Yanukovych (just as corrupt as the present lot but was elected to office)
Here’s the actual conversation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk
and the full story, with transcript of the call is on the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957
What was she and John McCain (Him again! Wasn’t he also photographed glad-handing the “moderate” terrorists in Syria (by “moderate” we mean Al Nusra, part of Al Qaeda who did 9/11) including the terrorist that was videoed eating a Syrian government soldier’s still-beating heart and still*warm liver?) doing joining the demonstration in Maidan Square? It’s like if Russian foreign minister Lavrov joined protesters outside Congress, it would be a totally unacceptable interfering in another country’s affairs just like Nuland and McCain did…..also shots were fired both at police and demonstrators by agent provocateurs …same thing happened in 2011 in Syria when shots were fired both at police and demonstrators…sounds familiar? 😉
TonyI don’t think they’ve been withholding data because it would implicate them as direct culprits in this somehow (be it that ludicrous fighter jet story or the “covering behind civilian jets” story), I think they’re withholding it because it would show they were carrying out air strikes all over the place and that would eventually have some ramifications for them.
I mean, it would show that a proper aerial campaign was going on at the very same time, with all that would entail in terms of the aerial bombardment of cities in the region, in terms of prompting the rebels to pursue ever more potent AA assets, in terms of the situation in the Eastern Ukrainian sky over those fateful days in July and so on.
In short, I believe they’re withholding this data in order to downplay the severity of the war as it were, because if it all would be out there they might find it difficult to motivate having kept the airspace open to civilian flights and you’d have people question the way the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” was carried out. That “absolutely no tangible threats above 30,000 feet” or whatever thing would get all muddy, too.
Please do note that I believe Russia’s ultimately responsible for the MH17 disaster, from a legal point of view, and they’re the ones who should admit they screwed up by sending a potent SAM system into this warzone.
… But still – it’s a god damn mess down there and I get the feeling that Ukraine’s really determined not to have anybody shed much light on how that “anti-terrorist operation” was conceived and carried out, because it would mess things up in terms of proportions, responses and so on.
Any objective observer knows that it was handled badly by everyone involved, and that all sides helped escalate it way too far. Don’t expect to find such reflections presented “officially” just yet though, it’ll take another half a decade or so. As always.
….
Thanks Snufflebug, as always a well considered and balanced post.
That had to be the reason why the Ukrainians won’t release the radar data….not because they were involved in the shooting of the airliner (I also don’t believe they were)….but because the radar data would show they were also carrying out air strikes in a proper aerial campaign, which included bombardment of cities which wouldn’t look good.
I agree Russia should admit their ultimately responsible for the MH17 disaster because they screwed up by sending a potent SAM system into this warzone.
Although in the context of the war everyone….including the Ukrainians, and it cannot be denied, their American “advisers”, are also partly responsible for these events. As you said it will be many years, maybe 5-10 years, before we get there to the real truth.
TonyGotta say Russia is absolutely terrible at handling mistakes they’ve made though, they prefer to muddy the waters, quietly give anyone responsible the boot and then pretend to be entirely oblivious to everything.
That’s a recurring thing, unfortunately, you see it when they’ve messed up elsewhere as well. It’s a really crappy “culture” if you will, that doesn’t do them any favors.
Everybody makes mistakes and none of the events surrounding this or the civil war are particularly unique or difficult to understand per se (civil war, weapons, training and logistics support of different sides, lots of political posturing, big strategical issues, blah blah blah), but it doesn’t exactly generate a whole lot of sympathy when you just shove it under the rug like they consistently do.
I have to add one thing though, and that is that there have been several instances of lower-level command and authorities in Russia hiding or attempting to hide mess-ups from the bigger boys upstairs, a fact that has led to some massive lay-offs and reshuffles in several government bodies, military districts and branches in the past years.
It might very well be that they are confused for real about what happened, or at least that they were at the time, and now they don’t quite know how to wiggle themselves out of this grand mess because it would highlight many more issues other than the original disaster itself, with ramifications they prefer to deal with in their own way and pace rather than having it all blowing up in their faces in an instant. Just a thought…
…..
The Russian government should take responsibility for this major miscalculation, apologize and pay compensation. They should’ve done that a good while ago already. I hope they will, eventually.
…..
I think that the Russian government still denies being directly involved, or at the very least they attempt to downplay it, but none of that is exactly a secret. Not that it matters much though, and it’s not that relevant as far as the topic goes – that particular part is just like any other civil war, coups and counter-coups and so on and so forth.
Foreign meddling galore… They really lack that CIA finesse though, that is for sure.
Good post and I agree that it is likely to have been a terrible mistake by the rebels in shooting down the plane.
I said the same in 2014 that it is likely to have been a terrible mistake by the rebels….but as you say, the Russian mentality is never to admit a mistake….perhaps a legacy from the Soviet era (and earlier eras) where lower-level commands hid or tried to hide from bosses any “mess-ups” and admitting you did something wrong could have terrible consequences.
Big question…….why do the Ukrainians not just release the radar surveillance data? What do they have to hide by not releasing the untampered-with radar data?
Tony
That was from Libya, but Syria too had several of the airbases run over by the Jihadist with access to these rocket pods.
“Moderate” terrorists have received arms, including rockets, transferred through mainly Turkey (and Jordan) from captured Libyan stocks and they have also taken rockets from overrun Syrian Government bases.
TOW missiles used by rebels are of course American, supplied to about 50 countries so plausible deniability and used by rebels
A TOW BGM-71E-3B missile with the serial number removed, can be seen in a 27 May 2014 episode of the PBS series Frontline.
Sadly, instead of de-escalating the situation, more rockets on their way to rebels including Grad-22 (plenty of captured systems in western hands).
This dirty war would stop quickly if arms and money to pay for arms and the “moderate” terrorists were stopped
Rebels confirmed to German journalist Jurgen Todenhofer in an interview published 26 September 2016 in the Kolner Stadtanzeiger (German newspaper in Cologne) with the commander of the al-Qaida branch “Jabhat al-Nusra.
that they are getting direct funding from Saudi (currently taking a pounding from Houthi rebels in skirts in Yemen despite overwhelming firepower and air support) as well as the Qatari and Kuwaiti governments.
He also confirmed training and direction from intelligence officers from Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel and the United States.
For the reason why Israel is supporting them he said “because Israel is at war with Syria and with Hizbullah (sic)”. We known about this for years because Israel has openly given medical aid to the jihadists fighting Syrian government forces (…my enemy’s enemy is my friend)….. here are videos and photos in the UK Daily Mail taken by the journalist Jack Wallis Simons embedded with Israeli commandos helping the “moderate” terrorists (who one day will blow back and hurt Israel).
The Nusra commander also confirmed they got tanks and BM (presumably Grad rockets) from Libya, shipped through Turkey.
Giving them MANPADS is the daftest idea their controllers have come up with as it will only case blowback when they use them to shot down civilian airliners.
TonyI think that the regime would be extremely happy to see all the civilians left in East Aleppo (or any other Islamic controlled territories) but let’s face it, the “Rebels” can’t allow it. It’s like a massive kidnapping, and well, Assad and Putin cannot afford to be blackmailed. The whole Syrian situation is getting very complex, I don’t think that anybody is ready to step back.
Saudies and Gulfs know that any solution with Assad staying in charge might blowback on them, first because Assad is not likely to forgive. But also becouse Nusra, ISIS, etc.. will probably retaliate in case their supporters abdandom them to Iran, Russia an Assad. Iran and Assad cannot do anything but to respond to an aggresion on their interests. USA might have a chance to step back without “looking weak” but needs a new administration to do so.
I think it’s a mistake but for the west is prefering to support Al-qaeda or ISIS than Assad or Putin. Not saying that they like terrorists, but that’s their choice for Syria. The thing is that they can´t press further unless wanting to force the ruskies to WW3.
Good post.
TonyGarry, I have a lot of work to do and will reply later in the week….there is open source evidence for what is going which probably would not have been possible, or been very difficult to obtain many decades ago……bear in mind that there are rival and competing agencies and arms of the government with sometimes conflicting aims….also understand the reason that cheap arms are bought from East Europe, China etc. is for plausible deniability….they’re not going to hand out M-16s marked US army!
And stop saying western side versus the others! simple-minded with us or against us tosh …..this is no longer the cold war because the communists are no more and it’s not the old USSR V America ;- ) We can make up our own minds but we know there is am awful lot of misinformation and downright lies and no side has the monopoly on the truth. I am under no illusions of the state apparatus in Russia….but the bad things the Russians have done does not absolve the US from the bad things it has done and is doing now like illegal and secret wars and illegal regime change (illegal both in USA and international law)……you are too young to know but Hafez Assad (Bashar’s father) intervened in 1976 in the Lebanese Civil war on the side of the Maronite Christians to prevent a Leftist-Palestinian alliance victory….around the time of the massacre at Tel El-Zaatar…..so things in the middle east are not always clear cut or simple black and white..
The first debate is on soon so I’ll come back later in the week….and with Trump and Hilary not much of a choice and shame the best candidates for President aren’t even in the debates! A lot of young people will go for Johnson, the independent candidate, as the best of a bad lot.
There is a change sweeping many countries where people are tired of traditional politicians, which is why people like Bernie Saunders (a better speaker and debater than Hilary) are doing well. My reservations about Hillary are that while at least Obama had a “don’t do stupid ****” foreign policy (meant try not to start too many new wars costing a few trillion with no end in sight), Hillary does not seems to have the resilience to withstand the neo-cons in State and Defence and be a bit more inclined to a start a war. Gaddafi was certainly not at the top of people’s favourite persons (famously farted like anything when meeting Blair in his tent) but her Goofy reaction to Gaddafi’s death was pretty distasteful.
Trump can think on his feet but he might hold back a bit….no one knows….if Hilary tries to trade blow for blow she’ll lose…..same if she raises her voice because unfortunately when she tries to be forceful she can sound shrill (shrill Garry, shrill not shill! :D)
She is who is and should stay as calm and normal as possible and smile occasionally and even try a joke or two (don’t try too hard) but mainly stay presidential (whatever that means ;- )
TonyHas it been confirmed that there was an RAAF E-7A Wedgetail? In my earlier reply to you I only put that in as a possible along with the KC-30A tanker as there didn’t appear to be any RAAF Super Hornet involvement in actually dropping ordnance.
It appears that the RAAF involvement was purely in a support role. It could have just been KC-30 tanker support or the Super Hornets flying top cover.
Thanks for that TEEJ…..do we have confirmation of the make-up of the actual strike package because it appears to have changed over time?
Some contend that was to deflect the heat off the Americans, but I’ll wait for the official investigation to conclude which I suppose isn’t likely to be anytime soon?
I thought it was the two USAF A-10s, two F-16s (take your pick from NATO partners) and a UK Reaper (which would have had a bird’s eye view)?
TonyRemember the white helmet chap on the video on the BBC website doing a commentary on the non-existent Syrian helicopters dropping barrel bombs on the aid convoy?
(there were no Syrian helicopters there and nor are any seen in the video or heard hovering because Syrian operates ancient models without night-fighting capabilities that can’t fight at night and they weren’t there! It was pitch black so how could the jihadist see the helicopters and barrel bombs he was describing? 😉
Well it turns out our white-helmeted jihadi friend was one of the “moderate” terrorists!
See his white helmeted mug here trying to make mugs of us all here! 😀 https://twitter.com/domihol/status/780114397717028864
He’s the white helmeted chap who appeared in a video purporting to be of the attack on the aid convoy (I did think at the time a bit scripted and casual for someone under air attack!) that was all over the news media including the BBC!
The same chap was also the source of Bellingcats attempt to blame the Russians for the attack on the aid convoy.
See here for photo https://twitter.com/domihol/status/780114397717028864
of the “magic” Russian bomb that made a massive hole in the roof of a building but somehow only broke just one of the reinforcing wires and miraculously left the other two wires untouched even though there is a perfectly circular hole through which a bomb is supposed to have come through!
TonyWhen did congress said they trained the ISIS ?
The hundreds of millions of dollars allocated to the “moderate” terrorists that have to be accounted for to Congress (the money the Saudis and Qataris don’t have to be accounted for to anyone because they are not democracies and their rulers dip into public funds like it’s their own money because they are absolute rulers accountable to no one)
Why don’t you spend a few seconds googling Senate Armed Forces and Foreign Affairs Committee hearings in the past few months and find out yourself the recent video of the general telling the Senate hearings when asked how many good rebels the US had trained with all that money……the answer was 4 or 5! 😀 (because all the rest had defected to the “bad” ISIS terrorists (together with all of their weapons :D)
What do you expect a rebel group to look like ?
Garry, I am a disappointed that you did not answer my answer to your question and cut out the important bit….for the benefit of everyone else I’ll remind you what you said :D.
or do i have to sneaky link jihadists and American in every post like you ?
and my answer was:
I don’t need to link jihadists and Americans……the American forward Air Controllers guiding the air strikes for the “moderate” terrorists are doing that all by themselves 😉 :
I was arguing with crow about that , and i did stated my position at the start too , iam not sneaky link the 2 at all ,the offical news was that US blame Syrian and Russian for the attack , crowd said Syrian doesnt have night fighting capabilities , and i was argue about that , what exactly is your problem ? or do i have to take his words for it ?
Now about the resouces required to make modification , isnt it so ironic that you are so easily to believe US funding ISIS without needing any evidence , but at the sametime think Russian doesnt help Assad army at all eventhough they are in the same side ?
The Syrians are flying what they have for their current needs for daytime fighting….no doubt the Russians will help replace some of the antique early versions at some point in the future.
By the way, why do you keep going on about me having a problem with you asking things? It’s actually the complete opposite! 😀 I want you to ask as many questions as you like…..ask what you like about what you like because we are here on this forum to find out more about aviation and improve our knowledge ;- )
So you think the Jihadist towed the mortal along the convoy to attack it ???
Lol 😀
I never refute this point
Hurray! At last. Glad to hear that!
Interesting that you would say that , isnt that kinda the same for all video that has been posted ? you cant be sure about exactly where or when exactly they was taken either
Ask the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staffs where in Syria he thinks the video of the Americans being jeered by the jihadists above was taken!
(in the Senate hearings on Thursday he was asked specifically about this video).
That depend on whether the bomb is air detonate or not , then there is also others factors like size and distance
The point is there is no conclusive evidence this was an air attack rather than by proxies with a ground attack using artillery or mortars.
Also, some of the pictures of the damaged trucks appear to be of rust buckets that could have been taken at another date and place and mixed up with some of the picture…..the point is there is no conclusive evidence that either the Syrians or Russians attacked the aid convoy……in contrast to the US bombing of the Syrian positions that allowed ISIS to advance and which belatedly admitted by the Americans after first denying outright they did….no apology to the Syrian government they killed so many government troops and allowed ISIS to prosper (reason is they are illegally trying to overthrow the Syrian government).
TonySyria is a really complex matter, but from my perspective there’s no gain for either SAAF or RuAF in attacking a UN convoy. In addition, the timing is just too convenient for me to believe that it was actually attacked by the loyalist forces.
I mean Assad and Putin may not deserve the peace nobel price, but attacking UN convoy is just plain silly, none of the two looks like a fool to me.
It looks like an attack intended at diverting attention from the bombing on SAA positions in Deir Ez Zor, in fact it served that purpouse by shifting the center of concerns at the UN summit.
But it would have been silly by the USAAF to strike from the air, I believe some proxies on the ground did the actual job.
Good post.
The Syrians and Russians have never attacked an aid convoy before….so why this one?
The aid convoy was in an area controlled by the “moderate” terrorists and if the Syrians or Russians did the attack I agree what would they gain other than draw attention away from the earlier American “accidental” attack on the Syrian positions that allowed ISIS to advance?
TonyThey do not intentionally aid the ISIS though ,
Lol 😀 ISIS are cannon fodder and unwitting proxies because someone is out to get Bashar Assad……getting rid of Assad is illegal under international law by the way in exactly the same way would getting rid of the President of the US or the Prime Minister of the UK by the same means would also be illegal……illegally trying to “do a Gaddafi” (that turned out well in Libya didn’t it…now full of Jihadists and country up the spout with thousands of refugees trying to get to Europe) to the head of state of a sovereign country or head of government recognised by the UN is wrong whoever would does this crime under international law.
…..imagine anyone trying to do the same thing in the USA, UK or France….it would be wrong here and it’s wrong in Syria whoever does it…..anything that can damage the Assad regime, including aiding ISIS and the jihadists (because they are the ones doing the actual fighting as cannon fodder against the Syrian government) is being done by American, British and French special forces currently present, also illegally, in Syria.
and the “moderate” group that fighting Assad regiem isnt in the same group as ISIS, moreover , you also get group like hezbollah that actually in the side of Assad regiem. And where is the evidence that US ignored ISIS in Syria ?? , they still bomb and attack ISIS group everyday
😀 the “moderate” terrorists are ISIS and Al Nusra…all of them are Jihadists and they have dozens of other names ….they keep changing names every time one of them are exposed…..but it’s the same lot! They change names, from e.g. Nusra to whatever name they change to today to try and shake off the scent of ISIS and Al Qaeda but they are what they are! Memories are short but Al Qaeda did 9/11….Al Nusra (or whaterver name they use today) and the jihadists are their affiliates of Al Qaeda and support 9/11 and hate the USA but I suppose the enemy (ISIS) of my enemy (Bashar Assad) is my friend (ISIS)….very sad and cynical because a whole country, cultured compared to the Wahabbi kingdoms, has been destroyed all in pursuit of the aims of whoever said get Assad.
So it is fine for you to have opinion that support Russian and Assad , but if anyone have opinion support US or Western side then they are a shill ? really? what kind of stupid logic is that ?
This dirty war would stop fairly quickly….with no more refuges……if the US and Saudi stopped supplying and supporting “moderate” terrorists (ISIS and Nusra and thirty other similar groups paid and trained in camps in Jordan, Turkey, East European countries, all paid for by Saudi, Qatar and the US (as stated in congress).
I do not support the Russia government …..I support the Russian people just like I also support the American people and all ordinary people of the world! Ordinary people can’t help where they are born and who are just like you and me. It’s their dastardly governments and semi-autonomous agencies acting in their name, but conducting criminal and illegal in international law activities, like attacking a sovereign country and trying to regime change causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in pursuit of their illegal activities which constitute war crimes on behalf of dodgy countries (like Saudi and the other Gulf “democracies “:D) and to be clear that is what I don’t support…
….nor do I support the proxy cold war being played out by people, including various state agencies, that don’t care how many countries they destroy or how many millions die….as long as they can get the “other side…..memories are short but the secret and illegal wars in Laos and Cambodia and the bombing the sh!t out of the people were similar criminal activities and illegal under international (and USA) law.
I am also not a fan of Putin because I know about the over 300 Russians killed in the 1999 apartment bombings in Moscow ascribed to officially to Chechen terrorists, and designed to create a climate of fear that propelled the then unknown Putin into power in the elections to replace Yeltsin. (Putin’s first act as President was to pardon Yeltsin for any wrong doing (like the Swiss scandal involving his daughter and his family taking money 😉 …..the FSB (successor to KGB) officer Alexander Litvinenko investigating the explosions found the number plates of the cars carrying the explosives were actually FSB cars and for trying to expose this he was assassinated by the Russians in London in a terrible death using Polonium-210.
Also I said nothing about you being a shill….have I touched a nerve? To me it is odd what you and your “team” (joke) post, but please carry on and everyone can decide for themselves what they think….after all we are not communists! (copyright The Godfather 😉
or do i have to sneaky link jihadists and American in every post like you ?
I don’t need to link jihadists and Americans……the American forward Air Controllers guiding the air strikes for the “moderate” terrorists are doing that all by themselves 😉 :
Here is a video of the poor American FACs being jeered out of a town in Northern Syria called Al Bab by the jihadists they are forced to help 😉 I feel for these American soldiers because they know these are nasty jihadists they are forced to provide secret assistance to and they know these jihadists support 9/11 so why is the US providing these same jihadists with air and other support just to illegally overthrow the sovereign government of Bashar Assad?
Take a good look at the “moderate” terrorists….this is what they look like…..this is the video that Gen Dunford (Chairman of Joint Chief of Staffs) said in Congress last Thursday that he knew about, but said he hadn’t watched and anyway it didn’t matter because they were doing a good job! 😀
It said at the start that the attack could be done by Russian or Syria , and Crow said Syria airforce dont have night fighting capabilities , that why i asked about thermal system on their helicopter , what wrong in that ? or i have to blindly accept whatever given without asking any question ?
Garry mate you ask away as many questions to your heart’s content about the non-existent night fighting capabilities of the Syrian air force! This is an aviation forum where we discuss these kind of things and I encourage you to ask as many questions as you like because then the many well informed people on this aviation forum with their specialised knowledge can put us all right, unlike can be done on say the Daily Mail website or by that comic newspaper The Sun (owned by Rupert Murdoch who also owns Fox News!).
I pointed out you were going on and on and on about this, only because you were trying to link this a video from the discredited “white helmets” (jihadists wearing white helmets pretending to be the good guys but actually nothing to do with the official Red Cross) saying it was Syrians helicopters dropping barrel bombs (no proof in the video of helicopters hovering and no way they could have seen barrel bombs or the helicopters in the pitch dark with no lights) when the Syrian helicopters do not have even primitive night fighting capability.
Your suggestion that could use a make-shift night fighting capability using night vision goggles was nicely refuted by MSphere because they wouldn’t work through the glass! And the Syrian can’t carry out the work (not in the field and they don’t even have the resources) required to convert their ancient machines with night fighting capability and all of this was outlined in detail by MSphere in the posts above.
Why did the Jihadist towing mortar along side the convoy ? may be they hoped that they will not be attacked because either Russian ,US have to care about colletaral damage , arent they doing that all the time ?
The point is the aid convoy could have attacked as Marcellogo says by mortars or artillery operated by the jihadists…..so there is no conclusive proof either way.
There are 4 situation that could have happend:
Case 1: Syria did it , and the moderate saw their heli , that could be explained that the Syrian installed some extra night vision system on their heli or let pilots use some night vision google ( not in a proffesional ways but more in line of temporary solution ) then the moderate may saw their heli either because of the collision light system or because the aircraft use it’s cannon as well
Case 2: Russian did it with their Su-24 , no one see anything but because it is a dive bombing , people can hear jet noise and the unguide bomb of Russian kinda look like the barrel bombs of Syrian regime
Case 3: IED and everyside want to blame someone
Case 4: Attack was done by US with their Predator
Case 5 as pointed out by Marcellogo is it was a surface-to-surface attack by mortars or artillery ….which both sides have (jihadists and the Syrian government) can there is no conclusive proof either way.
The video posted by TEEJ purporting to be of the attack on the aid convoy is of short duration, does not have proof of where or when it was taken….and show no planes…..the noise of the planes (no noise heard of helicopters as claimed by discredited “white helmet” wearing jihadist –aligned guys who happened to be there to give a running commentary about Syrian helicopters dropping barrel bombs when they couldn’t have seen either bombs or helicopters in the pitch dark) appear of to be slower flying (subsonic) aircraft but I will not get drawn into the claims on other websites posted by Nicholas10 that the video has been doctored…..in any case there is no clear picture of the any aircraft or proof that it was even the time and place….perhaps someone has that info? Even if time and place can be established of purported video there still no pictures of the actual planes and video is just a few minutes out of what is said to be a longer attack).
Not all bomb after match look the same , it depending on the kind of bomb you used and how many of them you used too, Why that particular convoy was attacked ? could be simple case of target of oppotunities more than anything else
There are no huge bomb craters seen in the pictures of the aftermath as are seen in real bombings by Russian Su-24s dropping a few tons of bombs…..the cardboard boxes aren’t even burnt when a the blast from 100 kg or 250kg bombs would have can be more devastating than say a much smaller artillery or mortar shell.
TonyFunny isn’t it ever time there is a cease-fire the “moderate” terrorists like ISIS and Nusra (whatever name it is using today… but it’s the same lot) use the opportunity to re-group, re-arm and launch new offensives against the Syrian government 😉 😀
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