TonyThe F-16s that bombed were Danish working together with the USAF A-10s. The Australians also took part likely in a support role with KC-30A and or E-7A Wedgetail….
if there was an Australian E-7A Wedgetail (Boeing 737 Airborne Early Warning and Command aircraft) in support of the A-10s and F-16s it would have what was going on and seen the Syrian base that had been there for ages that was the target of the “accidental” bombing the cr*p out of the Syrian positions for more than an hour….yet first the Americans denied they did the bombing killing almost 100 Syrian government soliders, then after a few days had gone by (to try and take the heat and spotlight off the “accidental” bombing) the US grudgingly agreed yes they did the bombing that allowed ISIS to take the Syrian positions…
……the Americans initially denied out of hand their strike on the Syrian positions killing almost 100 and allowing the recent ISIS advance to heights overlooking and now threatening the government positions (……TEEJ if there was also an Australian Wedgetail there monitoring, plus a drone, the Americans would have had a pretty good idea what they were bombing the hell out of for more than an hour, which makes their denial even worse!).
TEEJ, anything to say about the E-7A Wedgetail AWAC that flew in support of the US bombing of the Syrian positions…..would it not have situational awareness and known that the the Syrian positions were being bombed?
TonyIam not sure if those number are correct or not , and to be honest i cant be bothered to check , but TBH , i dont see anywhere in that link mentioned that CNN admits anything, moreover, it pretty much naive to assume that a new channels doesnt have propaganda or is reliable just because it has a lot of views.
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I am, like Wilhelm, sick of being lied to by politicians and being spun a line by those prosecuting an illegal and secret war without parliamentary authority against a sovereign nation, Syria, and a war designed illegally to topple Bashar Assad. Why are we fighting ISIS in London and Paris and New York, but in Syria, not only are we turning a blind eye to ISIS, but we are aiding and abetting the “moderate” terrorists ISIS and whatever new name Nusra have changed to today (same lot and the whole world knows it) to overthrow the secular government of Bashar Assad who are fighting ISIS and the Jihadists?
What gives British or American politicians the right to decide regime change just because that’s what the Saudis and their Wahabbhi mates want because they think they have paid for? (you can’t just buy countries to go to war for you!). In fact if it’s regime change to get rid of non-democratic, despotic tyrannies, run for and by a minority non-elected elite, why not start with Saudi and the Gulf kingdoms? Bashar compared to them is ok.
Most people in Britain most certainly don’t want another repeat in Syria of the fiascos that happened in Iraq and Libya which gave rise to crazy jihadists and they certainly aren’t going to give a free get-out-of-jail card (more like go to jail you barstewards) to the shifty western politicians peddling this nonsense at the behest of Saudi and Qatari potentates who’ve spent a fortune lobbying and pushing fivers down their trousers to go to war for them because they can afford to pay for taking over a whole country as easily as ordering room service.
Even the Sunnis in Syria after experiencing life under ISIS are not mad and realise the modern life and relative freedoms they used to having in Syria would be crushed under any Saudi-sponsored Wahabbi regime that might take over. And they realise that Bashar Assad, in charge of the repressive regime he inherited from his father Hafez Assad and one which he can’t easily dismantle because of vested interests and now the foreign Jihadi invasion, is still a million times better than the non-democratic and repressive Wahabbi kingdoms that seek to take over Syria for their own ends.
I don’t care about Russian Television, or whether one person watches it or a million watch it…..I support the Russian people but I am not a Putin supporter …I have no illusions about him and his cronies or how they are enriching themselves and how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely….but that does not make right the bad things the US does for its own interests, including conducting illegal wars at the expenses of the lives of local people to regime change and not always for the better.
This is not the Daily Mail website because I believe people on this forum are simply better informed because of our specialised interest in aviation and we can make up their own minds independently of the spin that’s out there.
Fox News to me is the same, it’s so bad it’s good and I watch if I want a laugh sometimes and just because it’s the top cable channel doesn’t make it any more true or the weird world view it pushes to the gullible and unquestioned by the credulous…..top man that Hannity! Why did they sack that Mormon guy Glenn Beck…..crazy as a coot and mad as a box of frogs ;- ).
Again , i didnt know that early Russian heli and Mig-29 doesnt have night vision or thermal system , simply assumed that they did have those basic stuff , that why i ask people who know more about those system such as stealthflanker , but i never said it is 100% done by the Syrian force , i simply cast doubt on things i heard unlike some members who readily swallowing any negative story about the West.
Garry, welcome to the decadent West 😉 Just like your chum mig-31b (another LM bot….is he on holiday or has he found a real job?) we all know which side you’re batting both for 😉 I hope you do well and make good here in the sleazy west (joke) while also making a few dollars….I know we all have to pay our bills somehow, but the reason you’ve gone on and on about the night fighting capabilities of Syrian is helicopters because you repeatedly and in every post keep trying sneakily to connect the Syrians or Russians to the attack on the aid convoy without any incontrovertible evidence whatsoever (you should give back the money for a sloppy job (joke), while at the same time talking about bias in other people 😀
Show me real evidence and not a Bellingcat or AgitPapa type analysis, which as Marcellos says, both are plausible, but not conclusively believable and then we’ve got something to talk about….but until then no one really knows what happened ….. all except the “moderate” terrorists who were in control of the area where the aid convoy was because they were there and if they are anything like the white helmet members who took a selfie of with Syrian prisoners before killing them and like the daft people they are uploaded the photos and video for the whole world to see https://twitter.com/agitpapa, and now we can all see that the white helmets are not in fact the Red Cross but really in fact many are provable “moderate” terrorists.
You now acknowledge at last that the SyAF operates antique early models of helicopters and planes without sophisticated or even primitive night-fighting capabilities, so tell me how the white helmet members (aligned with jihadists and sponsored by America and nothing to do with the Syrian Red Crescent or official Red Cross) who happened conveniently to be there to give a running commentary on the aid convoy being attacked) were able to see barrel bombs (favourite code words in every script against the Assad regime 😉 in the night in pitch darkness? With no lights how could they see? And how did they even see the helicopters assuming they were without lights and not lit up like a Christmas tree were but were in pitch darkness?
Also what were the jihadists doing towing the heavy mortar doing weaving in and out of the aid convoy?
Also, if it were not Syrian helicopters and instead two Russian Su-24s, why wasn’t the sh!t kicked out of the convoy after a few tons of bombs were dropped? You’ve seen the video just above posted by Crow11 to see the aftermath of a real Russian bombing attack and it bears little resemblance to the photos after the attack on the aid convoy ….see more photos of lorries after attack here https://twitter.com/agitpapa.
For argument’s sake let’s say the Russians and Syrians did attack the aid convoy which was in an area under the control of the “moderate” terrorists, then why attack this particular aid convoy when one hadn’t been attacked before? Seems a bit fishy…..and something does not seem right…..; -)
TonyAllow me to say that on a purely technical PoW both reports, bellingcat and Agit Papa, seems me to made lot of sense (that is a greatly different thing to say than one of them are descriving what has really happened)…
OFAB as the name implies are fragmentation bombs : they are not specifically designed to penetrate concrete ceilings but instead to explode immediatly at ground contact or also mid-air using timed or air pressure fuzes.
So it’s possible (but IMHO not probable) that it just exploded outside projecting shrapnels there but overpressure was in any case enough to broke ceiling and allow the tail section only to enter. Seem it a lot of times with mortars tails on the asphalt in Dubrovnik after siege was lifted.
A FAB of the same weight, equipped with tail fuse would have instead entered completely before exploding and making all the building collapse.
Thank you for your reply Marcellogo
When we look at Bellingcat’s analysis or Agitpapa’s analysis here https://twitter.com/agitpapa, with detailed examination of the available evidence,
they both appear to have reasonably plausible but differing explanations of what happened…..my point is that no one really knows what really happened except the “moderate” terrorists who were there (because the area was under their control) and who knows if the moderate terrorists were involved and using their large mortars (seen in the drone footage) as they have been in the past?
We have garryA going on and on about Syrian helicopters operating in the dark when he knows the early models operated by the SyAF do not have night fighting capability (no worries please carry on mate as long as you like 😉 and the connection to the mention by the white helmets (conveniently there with the terrorists 😉 of two Syrian helicopters carrying out the attack using barrel bombs when there is no evidence for this means that statement by those boys purporting to be white helmets about Syrian helicopters is open to question at the very least.
Take a look at this video uploaded by a member of the White Helmets (nothing to do with the official Syrian Red Crescent who are the equivalent of The Red Cross), but the white helmets are a NGO given $23m by America…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnY2hlo0x_M….. need to log in to prove age to watch this….nothing graphic is shown because cuts out and rest is blacked out so you don’t see anything….but shows their capture and what they said and it gives you an idea of the mind-set of the Jihadists before they killed two soldiers…..it is worth noting the two Syrian solders were Sunni and are not Shia or Alawite…..most Sunnis are not crazy enough to want ISIS loonies running their country…we know who the white helmet was who uploaded this video because the idiot took a selfie with the captured two Syrian soldiers before they were killed……you can see the photo of the white helmet member in this twitter line https://twitter.com/agitpapa………and these are the “moderate” terrorists the US is supporting in pursuit of the aims of Saudi and Qatar.
We have to look critically at the misinformation and managed information in this dirty war……what we shouldn’t do is have a re-run of the cold war and rubbish everything said by either the Russians or the Americans…..instead because we are lucky enough to be living in a different age where we have at times access to better and the latest information than may be available to the traditional news sources, sometimes straight from the horses mouth, we can examine critically what is being said and sometimes deliberately with their own spin on what happened and of course to designed to confuse people in order to prevent them from knowing what really is being done in their name.
This was the case when the Americans initially denied out of hand their strike on the Syrian positions killing almost 100 and allowing the recent ISIS advance to heights overlooking and now threatening the government positions (……TEEJ if there was also an Australian Wedgetail there monitoring, plus a drone, the Americans would have had a pretty good idea what they were bombing the hell out of for more than an hour, which makes their denial even worse!).
The latest joke is the American proposal for a no fly zone is it should only apply to the Syrians, a sovereign country flying in their own land! And what’s more who are actually fighting ISIS and Jihadis put there by Saudi, Qatar et al, and also the no fly zone should apply also to the Russians who were invited in by the UN-recognised government (unlike the Americans who are there illegally in a sovereign country because they can….how would they like it if Syrian jets flew over sovereign USA territory over say Washington? The Syrians would be blown out of the sky if they dared to do such a thing!).
The other joke is in the proposed no fly zone, only American planes should continue to fly because they are the only ones who can bomb accurately enough to not make mistakes unlike other countries! :D……I am not making this up this was said by General Dunford (Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff) and Defence secretary Ash Carter to Congress yesterday!…..(just like the mistake they grudgingly and belatedly admitted a few days ago after throwing dust in peoples eyes to deny outright they did the air strike to kill Syrian government forces fighting ISIS and that allowed the massed ISIS fighters who were concentrated for the assault to go on and take the heights 😉
Tell me why are we fighting ISIS in London and Paris and New York, and it’s ok do this at home, but in Syria, not only are we turning a blind eye to ISIS, but we are in fact aiding and abetting the “moderate” terrorists ISIS and whatever new name Nusra have changed to today (it’s the same lot by the way and the whole world knows it) to overthrow the secular government of Bashar Assad who are fighting ISIS and the Jihadists?
The American Forward Air Controllers guiding the air strikes must know it is Jihadists they are assisting! The same jihadists who jeered them out of a small town in north Syria just a few days ago…General Dunford, Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff told Congress yesterday that he knew about the video of this (it’s all over the internet) but said even though he knew about the video he hadn’t seen it himself and anyway it was irrelevant because they were doing a good job! :D:D
Does this make sense? No, of course not. The *******s behind this, the Saudis and Qataris are the ones ultimately responsible for destroying a once peaceful country by fuelling the war by pumping Jihadis and weapons into Syria. They have also spent millions lobbying western politicians to fight for them…..it’s like they think they can buy a whole country, Syria, and take it by paying crazy guys with beards (ISIS and Al Nusra), as well as the US and allies (who invited them in there to fight this illegal war? This war is illegal by any standards and it’s as wrong as say Syrians invading a sovereign country like the US)….you cannot defend the indefensible even if your palm is being greased by Gulf money.
The people responsible for this illegal and dirty war should be held accountable in the International Criminal Court because this war has resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of people (they don’t give a **** just like they don’t give a **** about the thousands of civilians killed by the Saudi and Gulf “precision” indiscriminate bombing in Yemen after their recent invasion there), five million Syrian refugees and the same number of internal refugees forced to leave their homes, as well as the biggest refugee problem in Europe since the Second World War that is being paid for by taxpayers here because weak politicians are somehow doing the bidding of the Saudis and gulf states in prosecuting an illegal war when the Saudis and gulf countries are no shining democracies and are repressive societies that are better candidates for regime change if anyone was arrogant enough to decide that’s what they want to do.
Surely western politicians have the sense to see the chaos this illegal war is causing….look at the refugees streaming into Europe….was it worth trying to illegally overthrow Assad for this ? This will blow back and damage us here at home (it already has) and no amount of Saudi arms contracts or lobbying money can ever make this nightmare for millions of people worthwhile…..
PS Looking at Bashar Assad on the BBC interview http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37440898
for a medical doctor who only wanted a quiet life as an eye specialist, and only became president after the death of his brother Bassel, he has a lot of guts after it looked like a Gaddafi-like scenario again and it almost was game over after all the resources of the Gulf states were thrown at him and thousands of non-Syrian Jihadists infiltrated and yet he came through it all and I have a quiet regard for him.
TonyThe “new Russian system of industrial implementation” obviously had some way to go…
Like taking candy from a baby Mercurius…..glad you are enjoying your retirement but you are flogging a dead horse here!
You do know that JSR (otherwise known in his former avatars as Star49 or H-177) is not actually Russian and he likes to wind people up by making outrageous remarks he knows will evoke a reaction! 😀 (did you get no love when you were growing up? Hopefully things have got a lot better?)
…..a good side benefit is that out of people correcting him there is often a lot of useful information obtained by people trying to show him the correct information that benefits both us and him I hope 😉 ……not that he’ll ever admit it as his defence mechanism from a cruel and callous world is never to say he is wrong when caught red-handed! 😀
TonyWhat I want to know is who decided that Assad must go? Who is funding the weapons and men?
The answer is really more prosaic and down to Earth than I could have ever imagined! It’s about money and not really religion. This ISIS thing is just a cover to get a paid army (cannon fodder to be thrown away later) “to go and kill infidels like Shias and Alawites and get paid a monthly stipend”, all this, just to take control of Syria!
It about people born in tents, who came into a lot of money through oil and gas and who want more. The sad and sordid truth is here:
The Saudis are leading the calls for democracy in Syria through their paid henchmen, ISIS, Al Nusra front and various other groups (their names change from time to time, but they are still the same crazy head-cutters ;- )
The irony is lost on the Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain and the Gulf Kingdoms, who have no democracy at home, restrictions and no free press and repressive societies, complain about Syrian civilian deaths and bombs on hospitals and residential areas (ISIS have no compunction in killing innocent civilians) but ironies of ironies are currently bombing the **** out of Yemen, bombing hospitals and schools, starving people to death through blockages after invading Yemen without a pip of protest in the media!
The Israelis openly jumped on the bandwagon and are supporting Al Nusra on the Golan Heights (illegally annexed from Syria by Israel) and are supporting the jihadis, openly providing assistance to them, on the basis they will hurt Bashar Assad’s regime. Israel always feared his father, strongman Hafez Assad, but his son Bashar is clearly not made in the same mould and who would never in a million years be a threat to Israel.
A clue as to why Assad must be got rid of (other than he is Shia, anathema to the Sunni Saudis and sworn enemies of Shia Iran (goes back 1400 years and the Wahabbhis don’t consider the Shias as even Muslim….that’s how bad the hate is) is the $10 billion agreement signed on Monday 25 July 2011 by the oil ministers of Iran, Iraq and Syria to build a pipeline to deliver liquefied gas from the giant South Pars field (shared with Qatar) to the huge EU market. The pipeline would have been extended almost 5,000km to the Mediterranean and onto Europe.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903591104576467631289250392
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq-Syria_pipeline
Five days later, on Friday 29 July 2011, nine defecting officers started the Free Syrian Army (FSA, a catch-all for all kinds of non-Syrian fighters to be shipped in from all over the world) to topple the regime of Bashar Assad and replace it with a Sunni regime compliant to the wishes of Sunni Saudi and Qatar.
An excellent summary and timeline is given in this March 2016 article by William Engdahl, author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics in the New World Order. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130
The Secret Stupid Saudi-US Deal on Syria. Oil Gas Pipeline War. The Kerry-Abdullah Secret Deal
Qatar, today the world’s largest exporter of LNG, largely to Asia, wants the same EU market that Iran and Syria eye. For that, they would build pipelines to the Mediterranean. Here is where getting rid of the pro-Iran Assad is essential.
In 2009 Qatar approached Bashar al-Assad to propose construction of a gas pipeline from Qatar’s north Field through Syria on to Turkey and to the EU. Assad refused, citing Syria’s long friendly relations with Russia and Gazprom. That refusal combined with the Iran-Iraq-Syria gas pipeline agreement in 2011 ignited the full-scale Saudi and Qatari assault on Assad’s power, financing al Qaeda terrorists, recruits of Jihadist fanatics willing to kill Alawite and Shi’ite “infidels” for $100 a month and a Kalishnikov.
The Washington neo-conservative warhawks in and around the Obama White House, along with their allies in the right-wing Netanyahu government, were cheering from the bleachers as Syria went up in flames after spring 2011.
Today the US-backed wars in Ukraine and in Syria are but two fronts in the same strategic war to cripple Russia and China and to rupture any Eurasian counter-pole to a US-controlled New World Order. In each, control of energy pipelines, this time primarily of natural gas pipelines—from Russia to the EU via Ukraine and from Iran and Syria to the EU via Syria—is the strategic goal. The true aim of the US and Israel backed ISIS is to give the pretext for bombing Assad’s vital grain silos and oil refineries to cripple the economy in preparation for a “Gaddhafi-”style elimination of Bashar al-Assad, an ally of Russia and China and Iran.
In a narrow sense, as Washington neo-conservatives see it, who controls Syria could control the Middle East. And from Syria, gateway to Asia, he will hold the key to Russia House, as well as that of China via the Silk Road.
Religious wars have historically been the most savage of all wars and this one is no exception, especially when trillions of dollars in oil and gas revenues are at stake. Why is the secret Kerry-Abdullah deal on Syria reached on September 11 stupid?
Because the brilliant tacticians in Washington and Riyadh and Doha and to an extent in Ankara are unable to look at the interconnectedness of all the dis-order and destruction they foment, to look beyond their visions of control of the oil and gas flows as the basis of their illegitimate power. They are planting the seeds of their own destruction in the end.
Tony…..we now have acknowledged British special forces inside Syria. Somebody should be hauled in front of a court of law for that and prosecuted.
You are correct Wilhem , the UK is not at war with Syria a sovereign state, unlike ISIS.
UK civilians can’t go there to fight the UN recognised Syrian government and in the same way UK soldiers should not be fighting there…..let’s forget for now how Jihadis were encouraged to go to Syria to fight until we had blowback (clever clogs must have thought of that but didn’t care until there was an outcry after a whole lot of jihadis came back).
… .reports from US special forces (both past and present serving)…..disclosed extreme distaste about the…. bloodthirsty zealots they are required to train and equip by order from above.…..there are very few “moderate” terrorists, if at all. The well-documented wholesale desertion of FSA members to ISIS when the need arises illustrates this, as well as the frankly pathetic attempts to simply rename some pretty disgusting terrorist groups as a way of pretending they aren’t who they really are.
We can only feel sympathy for the US forces being forced to train the bloodthirsty “moderate” terrorist who are actually the head-cutters, like Al Nusra etc. mostly non-Syrian gathered from the ends of the Earth paid for by the Saudis and Qataris. Real Syrians, including Sunnis, do not like ISIS and couldn’t wait to be rid of their repressive Saudi-like regime, especially with women not used to being covered all over like in Saudi having to comply or else risk hurt or even death at the hands of these barbarians.
Everytime there is a chance of the govt forces wrapping up major operations, the screeching from our politicians for ceasefires reaches a crescendo.
You can set your watch on a plethora of BBC articles on the topic being issued at the same time.
I thought I was the only one who noticed that! 😀 Any time the Syrian government was doing well and re-capturing ISIS held areas, there would be calls for a cease-fire….which were only intended for the moderate terrorists to re-group and launch new attacks.
It does appear though that people are sitting up and taking notice, and starting to question and see through the BS that is being fed to them. A cursory viewing of the rubbish and mental gymnastics coming out of the State Department these days is all one needs to know. The entire fabricated “fairytale” BS has been unravelling for a long while already.
It’s hard Wilhelm for them to get away with stuff they could in the old days without the internet.
Their twisting and turning to explain the unexplainable……that in Paris and London we are fighting ISIS, while In Syria we are turning a blind eye, and even helping, ISIS and other Jihadis like Al Nusra pretending to be “moderate” terrorists because someone has decided that Assad must go…. is cringe-worthy and embarrassing in the extreme because they can’t explain it at all.
The International Court of Justice is a farce, by the way. Always has been. It’s where we prosecute the “others”, not our politicians from the west.
Tony Bliar and George Bush, with hundreds of thousands of deaths on their hands have nothing to fear…and the current crop with their elbows deep in the blood of hundreds of thousands of Syrians aren’t losing any sleep. You get the feeling that the Saudi or Wahabbi pockets are too deep and tempting for them.
It’s actually quite disgusting.
Kissinger is 93, (same age as some of the Nazi concentration camp guards being tried recently ) is not likely to do much travelling at his age outside the USA, so unlike Pinochet the Chilean President who got arrested in London, he will get away with being a war criminal. This, and the fact the US has not (and probably to be on the safe side never will) signed up for the ICC!
Read “The Trial of Henry Kissinger” by Christopher Hitchens (one of my heroes of course), a damming indictment of the illegal wars prosecuted in Laos and Cambodia leading ultimately to the death of millions, treachery of re-starting secret bombing just a month after the Paris peace talks, deliberating breaking US law and lying to Congress after it expressly forbidden such adventures by more than two-thirds majority (couldn’t not be overridden by presidential veto) in Indochina, dodgy doings in Bangladesh, Chile, Cyprus, East Timor, and in the plight of the Iraqi Kurds, “including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture.”
We know Blair lives in fear of someone doing a citizens arrest in the UK and being whipped off to the International Criminal Court to stand trial for war crimes. I would recommend some of the present UK government should obtain legal advice in writing (not from a friendly and (ultimately) compliant Attorney general like Goldsmith (who had reservations about Iraq and didn’t want to put it in writing until he got his arm twisted by Blair, but from a senior counsel in a real law firm!) in connection with prosecuting an illegal war in Syria, a sovereign nation that we are not at war with.
Who has authorised sending UK troops or UK aircraft to Syria when we are not at war with them and without permission and consent of the UN-recognised regime that we are trying to illegally topple? I mean it’s not exactly like, say Spain deciding they didn’t like Theresa May’s government and wanting a regime change, so they send armed drones up the Thames to bomb (God forbid) Parliament and that is what we are doing in Syria, or is it?
TonySpot on. LICIDE.
Thanks for the link to Bellingcat (again 😉 …..we know who they are.
Here’s a link to an alternative view (not from the “moderate” terrorists, but those fighting them!) https://twitter.com/agitpapa
Follow the twitter timeline just after the attack and you will see analysis and comparisons of e.g. the scatter patterns of shrapnel on the damaged vehicles….We support our fighting men (not why they are fighting there against a country we are not officially at war with)…..we look at all the evidence just so as not to blindly accept one side of this managed story you understand ;- )
But this is a side show compared to the big question: who the hell wants to get rid of Bashar Assad? And what are the real reasons…..why it’s Saudi and Qatar who think they can buy anyone, including whole armies, to fight for them!
TonyFBW,
As a reasonable person I would ask you listen to the last 60 seconds of this interview on the BBC website with Bashar Assad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37440898
They ask him directly about the strike by 4 warplanes over more than an hour that led to ISIS taking over the commanding hill positions within an hour of the strike…..first the US denied it made the raid….then put out tosh to deliberately confuse about Danish and UK (UK not supposed be there!) aircraft doing the raid because they don’t fly A-10s….and finally admitted it made the strike on the Syrians that allowed ISIS to capture those hills within an hour of the strike (because ISIS had convenient concentrated there for an assault).
You know better than many that air strikes are usually guided by Forward Air Controllers (FAC) who are embedded with the moderate terrorists…..there are videos you can see of American FACs driving past Jihadis while the moderate terrorists (used to be called Al Nusra (affiliate of Al Quaeda. you know the lot that did 9/11), but they keep changing their name because Nusra’s is now proscribed and on the bad list of moderate terrorists) who are jeering them while the FACS drive past.
We here in Europe support Americans in general, but I feel for the poor American FACs who can’t like what they’re having to do (help the moderate terrorists, a motley crew of non-Syrians, many of them the dregs of Wahabbhi extremists) because someone (the usual suspects: Saudis et al) has decided Assad has to go.
By the way the white helmet guys you mentioned, who were conveniently there to make a running commentary while the aid trucks were hit (cardboard boxes not burnt! Was it from the large mortars the Jihadis were towing around the convoy that were filmed by the drone?) are with the moderate terrorists and are not with the Syrian Red Crescent (their equivalent of the Red Cross).
TonyThanks for posting that TEEJ…..no doubt there will be analysis to see if any sounds were added to the videos…..how did the white hats know they were regime jets?
Main thing TEEJ, is can you tell me who gave permission for us to be in Syria, a sovereign state?
We know that the Baathist regime is repressive, but what business of ours is that to replace it with a lot of jihadis like ISIS and whatever Al Nusra is called today? (name changed because Nursa is now proscribed as terrorists)?
Why not let the Syrian people deal with their own mess or have we learnt nothing from the mistakes in Iraq (you should see how Cheney was taken apart on a Fox News interview (it’s on youtube) when he was called out for his plain lies about Iraq….he wasn’t used to being challenged for telling porkies by journalists, especially from Fox!) and Libya?
Cameron was severely criticised by the UK Parliament a few days ago about the ill fated intervention in Libya
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37356873
Here is the actual report of the UK Foreign Affairs committee….Parliament is paramount and not some unelected person who thinks he or she knows better…..which is damning for the intervention in Libya, which is now a cesspit of jihadis and base for the many thousands of refugees trying to get to Europe….thanks for that Dave!
Who are the people stirring up trouble in Syria by pumping in weapons and missiles into what was once a peaceful country with the historic markets or souks in Aleppo and Damascus and rich archaeological sites going back thousands of years, preserved by the Syrian regime and now destroyed by ISIS who also slaughter their head of historical sites?
Who and which agencies are facilitating the insertion of non-Syrian Jihadis to stir things up and topple Assad?
Are there really 70,000 “moderate” terrorists (Al Nusra or their new name etc.) as claimed by Cameron, or is it just 4 or 5 as stated to Congress?
Hot news:
ISIS have just fired a chemical rocket at the American air base at Qayara (near Mosul) in Iraq…..perhaps they should ask ISIS if this is from the same stock given to them by their Saudi controllers (who are just a bit Wahhabi themselves) for that false flag attack in Damascus they were trying to pin on the Syrians for in order to have a pretext to bomb Assad (have you heard that it was not a “slam dunk” that it was the Syrians….that was from the horses mouth 😉 …..hopefully no one has been hurt but blowback can be a b1tch….well don’t arm crazy jihadis even if you think it’s 50 years ago and you think you are still fighting the cold war and for God’s sake don’t give them any more MANPADS that they could use against civilian airliners down the road (and not necessarily in the Middle East but in Europe and elsewhere).
TonyThere are a lot of lies being told.
On the BBC website there is a video of a Syrian saying it was helicopters dropping barrel bombs!
(“barrel bomb” has to be somehow included in any statement by politicians as if by script ; -)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37430824
Make up your mind….USA said it was 2 SU-24! (pretty hard to confuse with helicopters dropping barrel bombs remember!)…..the UN has now back-tracked and say it was not sure if it was an air raid (or was it by the moderate terrorists moving round the convoy in their state department and Saudi funded Nissan Hi-Lux SUVs.
The chemical gas attack in 2013 was by “moderates” terrorists on civilians using shells supplied by Saudi intelligence (Prince Bandar is off the scene now) and this was supposed to be the excuse to start bombing Assad……the bombing was thankfully stopped by a vote in the UK Parliament in 2013 and it is clear by law we should not be in Syria unless by invitation by the government (French, US, UK special forces been there for years).
Latest news is Kerry is asking for a no-fly zone…..this will aid the moderate terrorists know as ISIS, Al Quaeda affiliates Al Nusra!….they are the guys who ate raw human hearts and livers and whose chief was photographed with McCain (Al Nusra has now changed its name to Jabhat Fateh Al Sham to pretend not to be Al Nusra anymore and be more acceptable to Western media and not be on the naughty list now that Nusra is proscribed as a terrorist group!).
The people responsible for this mess are the Western politicians should be indicted (they can be done at any time, even if out of office) and sent to trial as war criminals in the International Criminal Court for prosecuting an illegal war against a sovereign country. How many other leaders don’t we like because they repress their people and are not democratic like the Saudis and Gulf monarchies?….why don’t we bomb them instead? The reason is clear why not: because it is illegal under international law.
They continue to allow more jihadis and weapons to be pumped into Syria to stir up and stoke the fires on behalf of Saudi and Qatar (who are Wahhabis
(who are Sunni) and who hate Assad’s Alawite sect (who are Shia)…..these two sects of Islam broke apart 1400 years ago, bit like Protestants and Catholics but a a lot worse (ISIS are Wahhabis)…..it is the Wahhabi Saudis and Qataris who are paying the money to arm and feed support the moderate terrorists (ISIS and Nusra).
Turkey and Jordan joined in in this little party and provided training grounds (also in Eastern Europe) and entry points for thousands of non-Syrian Jihadist
to enter Syria….King of Jordan has little choice as not a rich country (his dad King Hussein only took $1m a year from the CIA…..I am not making any
judgement or saying if good or bad (the alternatives could be much worse) because the Jordanians are in the pocket of the Saudis and need Western
support for his monarchy so he has to toe the line.
About Erdogan nothing more need be said, but he facilitated the ingress and support of thousands of jihadis into Syria and the blow back and payback
will be a b1tch (just as it will be for the Israelis supporting the Jihadis fighting Assad).
The Israelis feared Hafez Assad (Bashar’s father) and getting rid of Syria’s strategic weapon of last resort, its Chemical arsenal was a win for them…..
but they are mistaken in stoking up chaos and giving support to the rebels on the basis if they are weakening the regime and if they are killing each
other it’s long term good for Israel….absolutely not: Israel nursing (pun not intended) Al Nursa and treating ISIS fighters to go back and stir it up more
in Syria does and will not help calm down the situation!
These are the same politicians by fighting an illegal war under international law who have caused millions of people to leave the war area as refugees and
cause huge problems in Europe as a result of the massive refugee influx caused by that war. Many of us warned years ago about the dangers of western intelligence agencies sending jihadis to fight in Syria because they will use the butchery skills they learn when they come back to Europe and cause blowback
that will cause unnecessary hurt to people here (simple common sense) but Langley et al knows best (even if against the law and simple common sense)
and unfortunately we have all seen the consequences of allowing and facilitating through intelligence agencies jihadis to go to Syria to fight an illegal war.
Who gave permission for these intelligence agencies to break the law (forget international law, I’m talking about say the UK parliament voting to expressly
forbid an attack on Syria) and stir up trouble in Syria?
Those politicians (nominally) in charge of those agencies responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands because they are playing a dirty game to get rid of Bashar Assad, a medical doctor (trained as an ophthalmologist in London)…the pro western Assad and his wife have been pictured having dinner with Kerry and his wife…..Assad was a quiet and reserved man who never wanted to go into politics but was groomed to take over after the death in a car accident of his elder brother Bassel.
The Alawites are a secular, cultured and urbane people who protected minorities like the Yazidis, an ancient people who were there before Christ, as well
as the remnants of the earliest Christian people who had been there for 2,000 years…..an oasis of secular calm in an area riven with religious extremists.
The repressive apparatus of the Baathist regime put in place by his father Hafez Assad remained (Assad cannot dismantle it because of deep state vested
interests and by doing so now will play into the hands of ISIS and their masters the Saudis) and was the means to keep the minority Alawite sect in power
…..this is needs to be resolved by the Syrians themselves and not by others stirring things up for their own ends.
The western politicians who have caused this don’t give a monkeys about the Syrian (or any other people) (they will pay at elections for causing this mistake, (as big mistake as Iraq) and are using them to carry out the bidding of the Saudis and now there is now also a cold-war dimension where a proxy war is being played out by deep state USA agencies against the Russians….again to the cost of the ordinary Syrian people there who are thought to be expendable and collateral damage after messing up a once-okay-ish country…..if they had to go and fight themselves instead of sending cannon fodder out there we wouldn’t
have a repeat of the mistakes of Iraq and Libya….will they never learn?
Gaddafi, while a tyrant, was in charge of a tiny working country with no slums, free medical care and education (look at it now) did say if you get rid of me
and there will be thousands trying to cross the Mediterranean which is what is happening now.
The Syrian secret police (among other similar dodgy countries) was good enough for the CIA to go and kidnap people secretly (so-called rendition) and hand over them over to the Syrians to torture (CIA couldn’t do the torture in America in case it got out and they got indicted for breaking US law and lost their jobs and go to jail for many years)…….funny after many years of using the Syrian secret police to torture kidnapped people (so-called secret rendition) how certain people who now want to get rid of Assad now say the Syrians are now no longer that good enough (to hand over CIA prisoners to torture).
TonyYou would be right but for what I hope was just a typo. The ARVN was the Army of the Republic of Vietnam – i.e. South Vietnam. 😉
Yes, you are right! I was typing in a hurry when I was so flabbergasted with the tosh he was pushing that Vietnam as not a defeat for the US!
It took years to overcome the legacy of losing that war by over-compensating in the Reagan years by e.g. 600-ship Navy and a military paid for not
by taxes but increasing the national debt (which like a giant Ponzi scheme will never be repaid!).
TonyWell deserved win for Kei Nishikori last night….Andy Murray had a good run winning Wimbledon and the Gold medal in Rio…..
now focus on winning the Davis Cup semi against Argentina in Glasgow and take it from there.
TonyI would stop digging if I were you.
Otherwise I will start talking about how Kissinger and Nixon went behind Congress’s back and in defiance of the law of the land (the Church
amendment was passed by more than two thirds vote by Congress and couldn’t be overridden by presidential veto).
What is more important? The democratic process and the will of the people enshrined through the United States constitution in Congress, or what people in the
deep state thinks should be done? People in the State department and Langley should examine their consciences because this is what we are
supposed to be fighting for and not transferring weapons and missiles to moderate terrorists from Libya to Syria (via Jordan and Turkey).
We should be fighting ISIS and similar terrorists using intelligence…..by the way torturing someone is as waste of time because they will tell you
any rubbish you want to hear just to stop the torture and there was no useful intelligence gleaned from waterboarding or Abu Gharib, just
recruitment for terror groups (similar to people joining the Khmer Rouge after the carpet bombing of Cambodia, again all for nothing).
Just a month after the Paris peace talks and in just a few months in a secret and illegal war, (Nixon and Kissinger continued the war as if there was no
vote in Congress but carried on regardless and found the money and funds for all kind of illicit activities) dropped about a quarter of a million tons
on Cambodia (more than was dropped in the previous four years in that secret and illegal war).
I’ll stop here because you want to re-invent and re-write history, but however you try to spin it the truth is Vietnam was a strategic defeat for the USA.
Good luck winding up users of this forum using your various multiple identities (JustJames, PeterParker etc. etc.)….I’ve got work to do. 😀
TonyYes…. because it weakened the Vietnamese economy….. The US Senate also effectively blocked the US getting involved again.
The quadrupling of oil prices in 1973 (from $2-3 a barrel to about $10-12 from memory) affected all countries equally!
…..the big advantage South Vietnam had was the US pumped in billions to keep it propped up! This included massive military support including
hundred of aircraft that were captured when the South fell……no shortage of material there!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Church_Amendment
So they weren’t there to get defeated.
For the love of God! The US got out of the Vietnam in 1973 with the fig leaf of the peace talks in Paris (and the war criminal Kissinger who started
the secret and illegal war in Cambodia that ultimately led to millions dying got the Nobel Peace price!)
It was the loss of support at home that forced Nixon to pull out when the writing was on the wall……everyone could see it was a meat grinder killing
America’s finest in a worthless and unwinnable war.
Stop writing nonsense and twisting it…..the US lost the Vietnam war despite pulling out all the stops militarily to win the war……it wasn’t lack of
effort or resources (half a million US men In Vietnam under Westmoreland at the peak) or tonnage dropped (more tonnage of bombs was dropped
on Vietnam than in the whole of the second World war!).
That’s really it from me! Andy Murray’s clinches the third set and with Andy 2-1 up it’s a long way back for Nishikori…..:D
TonyThen the oil price shock hit South Vietnam and there was a chnage in US policy that encouraged the NV to kick-off again and it was only after 2 years of rebuilding their military that they did.
Stop talking ********! That’s b*llocks in English ;- )
The oil price rise in 1973 had nothing to do with the ARVN rolling over the South Vietnamese in a matter of months in 1975! 😀
That’s it from me….Nishikori took the second set and it’s game on for Andy Murray. Bye!
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