When did you last see inside the one at Langham?

Hi Richard

Summer of 2004 (or maybe 2003?) – I happened to be driving past when I saw there was a reasonably large gap/hole in the main door. Although it was too dark to see detail clearly through the hole given the very bright daylight outside, but inspection of a photo taken by poking the camera lens through the hole (and taken with flash) showed lots of decay and typical small “stalactite” type growths where rain/damp had presumably been penetrating the structure and leaching out salts etc.

It would be good to hear one of these domes had been fully restored on the inside as well as the outside. As has been said, these are rare structures, though with Shoreham being my closest airfield I guess I take them for granted.

Paul F

Or perhaps they were talking about Uncle Tony’s party’s chances of legally funding and winning the next general election :p

Paul F

Of course, if the Government could persuade companies not to locate themsleves in major conurbations, but insteda encourage them to spread the UK employment more widely over facilities spread throughout the whole country, not only would traffic and travel congestion be eased, but many areas of the country currently suffering from the perils of acting as dormitory towns (rather than having their own local economy), might benefit by the increase in the local daytime economy.

That said, I wouldn’t want my green and unspoilt patch of the south downs to disappear under grey urban sprawl as it spills out of Brighton or Crawley

In theory I could avoid my 60 mile round trip by car every day, as I live near one railway station, and I work near one on the same line. However, the overcrowded, expensive, and noisy trains, which are frequently late (due to the ever growing list of excuses -Wrong sort of snow, wrong sort of rain, leaves on the line, rails buckled due to the hot weather, problems further up/down the line, trees on the line, staff absence, adverse weather etc etc etc), and the lack of frequent services (only two an hour), mean I would rather sit in my own car, listening to my choice of noise (radio), and without being forced to listen to loudmouths who seem to think that they need to shout into their mobiles (presumably out of a belief that all around them will be impressed).

Give me a decent public transport alternative, and yes I’d happily leave the car at home most days, but until the public service option is reliable, and costs no more per day/mile than my personal chariot then I’ll stay on the roads. Road charges might change my mind, but then I’ll simply ask to work flexi-time, or be based at home – at present my employer will not accept either suggestion, so instead I have little choice but to join the time-wasting and eco-unfriendly lemming-like rush each morning and evening.

Paul F

Assumin we flew same model to Orlando SFB from LGW in April 2005, that one was also 3-3-3 in main cabin, and 2-4-2 in the front “Upgrade” cabin. The main cabin did look somewhat cramped, but we’d paid for the upgrade as we wanted to spend 9hrs each way in reasonable comfort :D.

Paul F

PaulF – one of the reasons Legends is so good is that the action is non-stop. Having ‘all day’ action which is in reality one thing, a pause, another thing, another pause, etc. would be disastrous to the show.

Hi Damien,

Good point, I know where you’re coming from, but perhaps the “non stop” five hours versus a day long show, albeit with breaks to allow “regrouping”, might make some Legends visitors feel that they need not try and join the stampede to the crowd line in time for the start of the action, as the natural ebb and flow of the non enthusiast visitors over a longer “display” might mean there was a steady flow of spaces available?

Big screens might help – but placing them such that they are visible to large parrts of the crowd, but don’t get in the way of the view of the live action would pose a few problems.

Perhaps an opportunity was missed when the American Museum building was designed – it probably provides a good vantage point from which to watch the flying, even though it’s a fair way back from the fence.

As has been pointed out, despite the challenges and niggles, perhaps the fact that Legends attendance hasn’t actually fallen is a sign of it’s continued success. With a bit of pre-planning, an early start, and an acceptance that large crowds will always bring traffic queues and toilet queues then it’s a good enthusiasts’ day (or days if you can afford both) out.

Perhaps attracting more non-ethusiasts to Legends might not be best goal to aim for after all? Goodwood FoS seems to go from strength to strength, despite being a pre-booking only event, with controlled attendence numbers. Maybe Legends has reached a s “self limiting” size, and any attempt to increase it’s popularity might bring more problems than benefits?

I think Trumper has a point regarding seating/grandstands.

Unless you are lucky enough to arrive at Legends as part of a group, and can thus arrange a rota to “reserve” your group’s spot on the fence, then you have to choose between walking around the museum and stalls in the morning, and then finding you cannot get a decent view when you try to get to the crowd line at lunchtime, or you sit by the fence all morning, thus ensuring you have a good view when the action starts, but you get little chance to walk around the ground displays – neither option seems good value if you’ve paid £100 to take the family in with you.

While the event lasts all day (i.e. museum opens around 9:00am, and you can leave after 6:00pm), the actual flying display, which is what most non-enthusiasts have come for (otherwise they would presumably come on a quieter day to see the IWM) does not last all day, as the action doesn’t start till lunchtime (the non-enthusiats probably aren’t really interested in the misc, often un-narrated arrivals and pleasure flight movements beforehand), so cost comparisons of 90min football matches vs an “all day” Legends event are perhaps not as valid as we might think – most non enthusisats probably see the chance to look around the IWM as an incidental option, rather than as integral to the whole Legends day? And don’t forget that although football match attendees may have to travel a fair distance too and from the match, they probably don’t need to leave as early, or get home as late, as visitors to Legends (or any other major airshow), where there is only one venue for the whole country to attend.

I take my “petrol-head” son to Goodwood Festival of Speed every year, which has a number of public grandstands, and if you pay the extra to book a grandstand seat then you know you have a guaranteed place, with a good view of the action, which you can use as much or as little as you like during the day. Admissions to FoS are now by advance ticket only, and are now sold out both main days well before the event. Okay, so adding grandstand seat nearly doubles the costs of the day out per head, and you have to commit to an advance booking many many months ahead (Seats are often sold out in Feb for the event in Late June or July) but the fact that you know you’re going to get a good view makes it worth it.

Goodwood FoS is to me, even as an aviation rather than a car enthusiast, better value than Legends – after all, the action on track starts at 9:00am, and runs through till the show closes at around 6:00am. Crowd numbers are strictly limited by use of the advanced ticket only method, and although hospitality suites do occupy some of the crowd line, there is plenty of space for the “paying punter” too.

I am more than happy to spend £120 on two entries and two grandstand seats for a Goodwood FoS “show” that lasts all day, with action going on in more than one place at most periods. I also get full, unrestricted, access to the pit and paddock area without further “on the day” surcharge. They have a number of large screen displays so that you can follow the live action when it is out of your sight. I also get well managed (albeit 10mins walk from the action) parking and traffic that flows as well as can be expected given the numbers involved.

Perhaps paying £60 for two entries into a crowded Legends, with an afternoon-only flying display, a high chance of remote parking unless i am there at the crack of dawn, and no guarantee of a decent view from the packed crowd line doesn’t seem such good value…..:diablo:

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll still go to Legends, but perhaps some lessons can be learned from other “enthusiast-lead” shows like Festival of Speed? Providing a full day’s “action” might be a good place to start, and the buy-in-advance grandstand seat idea might be worth a look, though if that means the crowd space for those that don’t buy seats becomes even smaller and more crowded then it could be counter-productive 🙁 ?

Paul F

Area Ruling

IIRC The Victors’s shape is in part due to the then current thinking that to perfom effectively at transonic speeds the cross sectional area of an aircraft had to fit a certain pattern when plotte dona graph – hence the practice became known as following the “Area Rule”. The Buccaneer followed similar fashion, hence it’s distinctly “nipped in” waist half way down the fuselage.

I think the “carrots” on the trailing edge of the Victor wing were also designed tand located so as to help “adjust” tte cross sectional area thus aiding conformance with the area ruling practice.

Of course, I may be totally mistaken…in which case we will soon find out.

Paul F

Don’t take your eyes off the (real) ball here….

As has been said above, the “Reds” are great ambassadors for what (little:( ) is left of “Great” Britain these days, and £5 Million per annum to fund them is small beer compared to the inept waste of funds on (unneccesary) middle managers in the NHS etc.

However, the threat to the Reds may just be a smoke screen to get everyone looking in one direction while more critical cuts are actually made elsewhere behind our backs… don’t forget the current shower of a Government is a master of spin and subterfuge.

Of course, perhaps the theoretical £5m saving is earmarked to pay Uncle Tony’s pension when he steps down 😀

Paul F