GoldenDragonThis story was posted in the Chinese forums some time ago (I posted it then in the news and spec thread) and it has to be filed under highly speculative until some corroborating evidence is shown.
Remember, there really is no secrecy concering the MF project. It’s been public as a prospective export for years now so if there are prototypes being built it should be in official releases from Chengdu.
We haven’t seen any in since this particular story came out.
This story is suspiciously like those from Hong Kong in the past where bits of informations from the mainland is spawned into lasting tales where experts add more and more speculative information to an already highly speculative original report.
This particular story has too many coinicidental elements of the actual FC-1 and F-7PG stories – PAF order, prototypes in building, etc. – that seemed cobbled together.
The FC-1 is so far along and is garnering so much interest that its future is more or less guaranteed right now.
It is best to wait until the Zhuhai Airshow less than a month away to see any kind of sign of life on the MF – which I don’t think will be much more than a table-top model again 🙂
GoldenDragonDiego Garcia has it good compared to Bikini.
GoldenDragonIt’s always funny to see how the China vs Taiwan wr would happen.
china would send hundred of ballistic missiles but would cry to the UN if Taiwan use a single bomb 🙂
It probably wouldn’t happen. Not when the latest stats show Taiwanese investment to China rising around 67% the first half of this year.
People don’t rush to put money into situations where war is imminent.
The Taiwan Strait really isn’t your basic hotspot situation like Israel-Arabs or India-Pakistan. Those countries don’t trade, travel or interact much with each other.
OTOH, trade, cultural and human exchanges between China and Taiwan are deep and massive. Almost five percent of the Taiwanese population actually lives in China (there are over 1 million Taiwanese in the PRC from a total population of 23 million.)
By the flow of money alone, most people who live in the greater China region (PRC, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan) and SE Asia are pretty telling you that they don’t think war is really going to happen.
GoldenDragonI don’t really recall much about the 1984 incident, which is at best an insignificant exchange compared to the one in 1962.
I never heard of the 1984 incident and neither has anyone else (who isn’t Indian.) The border wars between China and Vietnam in the early and mid 1980s were very real and they recorded in pictures from that period. But I’ve come across absolutely nothing concerning India in the 1980s.
This is like the ludicrous “India gave China its UN Security Council Seat” story – a phantom historic event.
GoldenDragonWhat the US could stop Taiwan but not Isreal… maybe the Israelis are more advance
Or it could be because Israel’s are less dangerous to the US’s strategic position. The US didn’t think the Arabs can respond to Israel’s nuclear bombs (though that is a wrong assumption based on disdain or prejudice.)
An openly nuclear Taiwan would not only mean a Chinese attack but a nuclear Japan and a nuclear South Korea. There is no way Taiwan can go nuclear and not have the other two go nuke too.
The scope of whats being done with the LCA vs the F-CK-1 is very different, as well as the amount of assistance recieved.
It is not just fighter aircraft but practically everything else. There is nothing by economic, social and scientific criteria where Taiwan isn’t miles ahead of India.
Don’t underestimate the Japanese.
The Chinese might not be awed. But they would never underestimate the Japanese. Or the ROC. Everything the Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese do are on an order of competence greater than most of Asia (or most of Europe, for that matter, save the leading few. )
China haven’t underestimate anyone since 1962. Even during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam, most Chinese thought they were going up against a superior force which was both more expereienced and better armed.
the world smirked when China spent $$ hundreds of millions on Russian space tech to send a man into space. What were they trying to demonstrate in 2004 by doing what others did since the late 1950s.
Correction, what only the US and Russia alone had done until China joined them. They are the only ones with the right to smirk. Smirking from those who never did it is pretty irrelevant.
India “smirked” at China’s Olympics 32 gold medals too :rolleyes: And there were far more people smirking about India getting only one medal than China’s spaceshot. But who cares?
You will always have people who’ve done nothing smirking at other’s achievements. A single silver medal was a great achievement for India in Athens (compared to other years) and India should be congratulated not smirked at in my opinion.
China did well in the olympics, that was due to a national drive, a state funded sports programme geared for the olympics
Taiwan’s Olympics program has done infinitely better than India’s. I think it is safe to day the Taiwanese nuclear weapons program was better funded and just as competently run.
China’s programs on both is of another league.
Wrong again – India tested first in 1974. The 1998 tests were weapons of more recent vintage.
India stated 1974 was a “peaceful” test because the material, plutonium, for the test came from a Canadian reactor that was gifted to India for peaceful purposes.
(1)
So 1974 was neither a weapons test nor even entirely Indian.
The first weapons explosion was supposedly 1998 at Pokhran but even this set of tests was not confirmed outside of India. In fact, there are great doubts as whether the Indian tests ever succeeded from seimographic evidence. (2)
————————————————————————
Notes:
http://www.ccnr.org/india_press.html
“CANDU reactors are the only commercially available nuclear reactors that produce both plutonium and tritium. India’s first nuclear explosion in 1974 used plutonium from a heavy water reactor that was a gift from the Canadian government.”
(2) http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/IndiaRealYields.html
“The yields claimed for the initial simultaneous Shakti I-III three shot test on 11 May were 43 kt, +/- 3 kt (for a thermonuclear device test, also stated to be 43-45 kt), 12 kt (an improved fission bomb design), and 0.2 kt. As with Pokhran-I, these yield claims have been controversial from the start.
“The consensus among outside seismic experts is that the yields of most Indian tests are overstated (particularly Pokhran-I or “Smiling Buddha” and Shakti-I), and that the very existence of Shakti IV-V is in question.”
On “smirking”: Pokhran II actually did caused far more smirking than China’s “man in space” experience if we take an example of press coverage at the time. An example:
http://www.flonnet.com/fl1524/15240820.htm
“The Vajpayee Government went for the Pokhran-II blasts giving a false impression to the people that they would help establish India as a superpower. It was a criminal act in that India is one of the 20 poorest nations which depend on borrowings and aid from the World Bank and other international funding agencies for managing their affairs.”
GoldenDragonyes… the statement is laughable…. taiwan already has an American umbrella… no need for India to jump in the mess…..
You bet it is laughable. You’re talking about a first-rate industrial and technical base backed by the world’s pre-eminent power. There is nothing that any country can give it that would make Taiwan’s situation better than it is. Certainly nothing from India.
could you please explain in detail as to what kinda technology and sophistication Taiwan possesses so as to build a nuclear device from scratch in 24 hours flat…..?
Can you describe Israel’s program in detail? Most experts know Israel has nukes and that South Africa did have them. They’re all clandestine so how do you describe in detail programs that are never officially acknowledge.
But we do know that Taiwan had a program that required the US to stop it twice.
The US has acknowledged to stopping Taiwan’s program first in the 1970s and then again 1980s.(1) India and Pakistan got their bombs in 1998.
———————————————————–
Notes:
(1) http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1998/jf98/jf98albright.html
“Taiwan today has no nuclear weapons and seems to have no plans to develop them-but only because the United States and the International Atomic Energy Agency (iaea) pushed Taiwan hard, particularly in the mid-1970s. Fortunately, Taiwan did not dig in its heels.”
“When Taiwan did not abandon its nuclear ambitions altogether, another effort was stopped in the late 1980s. “
GoldenDragonSome good Chinese National Day (Oct. 1) propaganda
According to an official release, China’s home aviation industry “has successively provided more than 15,000 military airplanes, more than 55,000 engines, more than 17,000 missiles for the army.”
GoldenDragonIndia should slip Taiwan some nukes, just like how China slipped some nukes to Pakistan.
Taiwan has such an infinitely more developed technical base than India that such a statement is simply laughable. Taiwan doesn’t have nukes because it is under the US umbrella and China’s declared position that if Taiwan goes nuclear, China will go to war.
If it wants to build nukes, like S Korea and Japan, it could build them tomorrow at far greater speed and with far greater sophistication than anything out of India.
For goodness sakes, Taiwan introduced what is arguably the first indigenous 4th gen fighter in Asia, the F-Ck-1 and then Asia’s first indigenous ARH BVR missiles. There simply isn’t any comparision between Taiwan’s capability and India’s.
GoldenDragonActually “China Air Force” is used in offically released CGs and models.
For example, the following CG model of the Y8X, actually released by Shaanxi Aviation Co., clearly has “China Air Force.”
You won’t see it often on actual PLAAF markings unless at air shows but is ubiquitious in the Chinese press. I think it is a deliberate attempt to let people know that these planes are intended for the Chinese air force as a marketing decision. So the magazine is absolutely correct in using it, especially on models of future projects.
GoldenDragonWhen you see the WS prefix on a Chinese engine, it’s a turbofan. Turbojets are preceded by WP.
The higher bypass ratio when compared to AL31F is indicative of an attacker versus a fighter.
Attack planes like the JH-7/A use turbofans with higher bypass for economy and range. Fighters tend to use low bypass for performance.
Transports use turbofans with very high bypass rations for even greater economy. Those looking for the best efficiency and economy and not mind a lower speed will use turboprops.
GoldenDragonThere was NEVER a question that it was real. It’s an artist impression.
So why did you post “PS or real”? If you took it from its original posting in the a Chinese language forum, you ALREADY KNOW that it’s not reality but a computer graphic of a canceled project.
So it is dishonest.
If you want to do that with your own artwork then do it. But don’t attempt this idiocy with someone else’s work. That person had no intention of misleading people that it’s real.
GoldenDragonRussia Northern Fleet warships to set out for Atlantic exercises
22.09.2004, 07.11
SEVEROMORSK, September 22 (Itar-Tass) – An aircraft carrying group of the Russian Northern Fleet will set out on Wednesday morning for an ocean training campaign.
The first to leave Severomorsk will be the big antisubmarine ships Severomorsk and Admiral Levchenko, which will participate in joint Russian-U.S. exercises in the North Sea.
The warships will be followed by the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Pyotr Veliky, the missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov, the destroyer Admiral Ushakov, the tanker Osipov and the rescue tugboats Altai and SB-406, fleet headquarters sources told Itar-Tass.
Deputy fleet commander vice-admiral Vladimir Dobroskochenko is in command of the campaign.
Before leaving for the sea, the commander told reporters that all the ships would be for more than a month in the northeast Atlantic where the main part of the exercises will take place.
.
A month for the Kuznetsov, Veliky and Ustinov?
There goes their whole naval budget for the year.
GoldenDragonIt’s actually arftist’s impression, not a concept because the J-9 was a real project.
It was supposed to be Mach 2.5 interceptor armed with China’s first BVR, the PL-4 and was begun in the late 1960s. It was canceled when the J-8II was developed. The nose of the J-8II obviously had much in common with the J-9.
There following is a rare look at J9 entry in a Chinese aviation album.
GoldenDragonIt is supposed to an artist impression of the canceled J-9 project. So of course, it was fake. The artist never intended for it to be thought of as real.
I think it is dishonest to post another person’s art under a headline pretending that it’s real.
Here’s another fom the set that is obviously a computer generated graphic
GoldenDragonCould be a number of things, including price. But changing political environment is probably a big one. M1s are susceptible to embargo on spares. It happened before to the country supplying the Al Khalid. Also, Saudi Arabia had bought Super Mushak trainers from Pakistan before so why not tanks?
It’s not just Saudi Arabia, either.
Kuwait, an US ally, had bought Plz45 self-propelled guns from China. Thailand, another rather well-off US ally bought Type 69 tanks. The reasons are usually a mixture of money and politics. So this isn’t anything new.
Sign In
