Srbin, the Y8F600 will be a lot more expensive than a base Y8. It’s still in development and it will have PW engines and western composite six-blade propellers and western avionics and a new load delivery system that will reduce the flight crew to only two people. It will be in excess of $20mn at the very least.

Here is a good selling one that you forgot 🙂

J-7P/PG – $2-4mn (reports from Pakistani F-7 deals)

Golden Dragon 🙂 hello

But i think the Aspide armament statement does not take in consideradtion the Tianamen Square event and the following Arms embargo that did not allow the Europeans to sell weapons to the Chinese so it is wrong the statement that the J-8II has been armed with Aspides since the early 1990s
The EU arms embargo does not add up with the J-8II armed with Aspides operationally.

The Aspide was a technology transfer deal where the missile was supposed to be built in China (unlike the R-77 deal for the MKKs.) The reason was the PL-4 that the PLAAF had worked on to arm the J-9 was also based on the Sparrow and the Aspide was a good followon.

The embargo did not affect the Aspide program except for stopping further cooperation. Read Janes from that period, there was never anything about a dead end to the Aspide program. In fact, we knew even back in the early 1990s then MR AAMs were carried by J-8IIs.

What was uncertain was what the Aspide was called – whether the PL-7 (this was before the Chinese sources declared the PL-7 as an IRAAM based on the Magic – many publication entries even today has the PL-7 listed as the J-8II’s bvr weapon), PL-10 or PL-11.

The PL-11 and PL-10 were basicly the attempts to fix what the arms embargo created, a lack of Aspides and by the way to build a home derivative of the AIM-7/Aspide for the PLAAF.

The Chinese SARH program predated Aspide. The PL-4 which was designed for the J-9. The J-8 is no more than a high speed interceptor. It was envisioned to be armed with a BVR. The J-9 was canceled when the J8II was developed in the 1980s and could accept a large radar.

The PL-11 is operational no doubt about it but still not in large numbers
due to the fact the PL-11 is quit new since only in 2002 the P-11 development finished and the PL-11 you are seeing since the mid 1990s were experimental missiles and according to the Chinese the PL-11 is a Missile that is aimed to the export market and that the PL-12 will be the main armament of J-8II and J-10 as a BVR weapon because the PL-11 has a range of 25km

The Janes report actually cites a Chinese news release that said the FD-60, not PL-11, was completed in 2000, not 2002. We are only assuming that it is the PL-11 because the Chinese export public release said the FD-60 arms the J8II in Chinese service.

But according to some in the Chinese boards, the manufacturer never explicitly declared the FD-60 as the PL-11.

Also, the background given on the missile by China (not speculated by Janes) is that it began in 1987 which actually predates the Aspide by a year.

The FD-60 could be the PL-11. It could also be a PL-4 derivative or the PL-10.

I do not think that the J-8 was not influence a bit by the Ye-152 anf Sukhoi T-5 in fact they did not have maidens flights very separated from each other and the Ye-152 and J-8 are basicly the same airframe, so it is possible that the Chinese were very influenced by the Ye-152 and i beleive that perhaps they adquiered some Ye-152 o T-5 blueprints

The closer in time of first flight, the less chance they were related. If it was so easy to find blueprints of the Ye-152 and quickly build a working copy then the Ye-152 was a simple plane indeed.

The truth is you don’t need any blueprints for the J8. It is nothing more than an enlarged twin-engined J-7 for sustained high speed, high altitude interception. The groundbreaking project at the time was the canard-delta J9.

After successful flight of the J8I and the J9 had hit a roadblock with the engine (it was supposed to be a turbofan,) the J8II was redesigned to allow for a BVR capable radar and to be able to fire the PL-4.

So the SARH progam in China was old even before Aspide.

What’s more, China had moved from SARH to ARH with the AMR-1 seekerhead by 1996.

I find it entirely doubtful that China would be selling both the FD-60 and SD-10 as brand new systems.

They wouldn’t even acknowledge the existence of the J-10 and they are releasing their entire arsenal for export?

Radar AAMs are dangerously susceptible to ECM. All countries, the US included, keeps that stuff close its breast, never mind China.

The question is not if Brazil can develope or not fighters or Airplanes but how can Brazil achieve the fastest way of adquiring technology to compete commercially with the stablish superpowers.

Again, Brazil can compete better “commercially” than Russia already.

Embraer has a large and growing share of the market. Russia has nothing like the ERJ-145 with 800 sold and no end in sight for new orders (and not only the civilian market but with the multi-billion dollar US Army/Navy buy of the ERJ-145’s for the Aerial Common Sensor program this platform in moving into the military sphere.)

Fighter planes are hit or miss sellers. Commercial jets are sold at a much more constant pace year after year as long as the model remains current.

The Su-35 in fact are not so important but the technology transfer and that is what matters, France has in South America the Arianne laucher space pad so Alcanta in Brazil is the closest competitor to it for such a reason the French bid does not includes technical help to the Brazilian space program, also Avibras is 100% Brazilian and it`s main products are Missiles therefore the Russian offer is better for the Brazilians but since Brazil still is a peaceful country and France has a big stake in EMBRAER the Brazilian Government still is undecided if go nationalistic or simply wait a little bit longer delaying the space program a little further but keeping the French Happy and therefore Embraer`s future but i feel the Brazil will find a way into the space faring nations.

Maybe the Brazilians here could tell us better. But my impression is that Embraer is considered a Brazilian company whether it has minority French partners or not. In fact, it is probably the most well-known Brazilian firm in the world (next to Pele who is a major Brazilian corporation all by himself :D)

Despite the tragic setback from the explosion, the space program hasn’t stopped even as they work to rebuild the launchg site. Brazil and China are working on their third and fourth CBERS satellites.

And they are already planning for the fourth one to be launched from Alcantara.

The space program is important but it is progressing so Brazil has no need to jeopardize Embraer’s share in the civilian market by funding Sukhoi for fighters that are good but not critical to Brazil’s security.

Great stuff once again, Deino!

That’s a very interesting point – for my opinion – no other manufactor of aircraft makes this like Dassault

Atlas 😀

Well, they would have if they went ahead and built the Cava :p

But obviously, they were influenced by their Mirages.