GoldenDragonTalking abot the JH-7A. Here’s a business news release involving the JH-7A’s maker, Xi’an.
December 09, 2004 09:39 AM US Eastern Timezone
Alcoa Extends its Global Supplier Relationship with Xian Aircraft of China
PITTSBURGH & XIAN, China–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Dec. 9, 2004–Alcoa (NYSE:AA) announced today that its Global Extruded and End Products business has received a multiyear contract from the largest aircraft maker in China Xian Aircraft Company (XAC) to provide aluminum extrusions for the tail section assembly of the Boeing 737, one of the best selling commercial aircraft in aviation history. The new contract extends Alcoa’s supplier relationship with XAC. Alcoa has been a long term supplier of aluminum sheet and plate to Xian as well as aerospace fasteners.
XAC is a current supplier of aircraft components in support of the Boeing Commercial Airplane Group.
Alcoa will produce a total of 250,000 pounds of hard alloy aluminum extrusions a year at its Lafayette, Indiana, and Chandler, Arizona, facilities in the U.S. and at its Changwon Precision Extrusions plant in South Korea for shipment to XAC starting in 2005.
About Alcoa Global Extruded and End Products
Alcoa Global Extruded and End Products provides aluminum extrusions for customers in the aerospace, automotive, commercial transportation, and building and construction markets. It operates as a global integrated aluminum extrusion company with locations throughout Europe, Asia, Latin America and North America. It is a global one-stop-shop for all aluminum extrusion requirements.
About XAC
Xian Aircraft Company (XAC) is the largest aircraft manufacturer in China. General production in 2004 was over 4.6 billion RMB yuan. XAC entered the international aerospace market as a major aircraft component supplier in 1980, the same year it became a major supplier to Boeing Company of the U.S. XAC has successively manufactured and delivered many components for Boeing for several aircraft, including the B747, B737-300 and B737-700. Presently, XAC supplies the front access door for the Boeing B737-300 and various components for the B747. XAC’s high-quality assurance system won ISO-9000 certification from the China regulatory agency and certificate of D1-9000a from Boeing.
About Alcoa
Alcoa is the world’s leading producer and manager of primary aluminum, fabricated aluminum and alumina facilities, and is active in all major aspects of the industry. Alcoa serves the aerospace, automotive, packaging, building and construction, commercial transportation and industrial markets, bringing design, engineering, production and other capabilities of Alcoa’s businesses to customers. In addition to aluminum products and components, Alcoa also markets consumer brands including Reynolds Wrap(R) foils and plastic wraps, Alcoa(R) wheels, and Baco(R) household wraps. Among its other businesses are vinyl siding, closures, fastening systems, precision castings, and electrical distribution systems for cars and trucks. The company has 120,000 employees in 43 countries and has been a member of the Dow Jones Industrial Average for 45 years and the Dow Jones Sustainability Indexes since 2001. More information can be found at http://www.alcoa.com
GoldenDragonCATIC, the J-7 and Grumman, see the Jane’s scan posted by Sens.
Grumman’s contract was to develop a modern western-style aircraft using as much of the Chengdu J-7 parts infrastructure as possible. But since 1989, that project mostly mothballed by US embargo until Pakistani interest revitalized it in the mid-1990s.
While there is little doubt that the Grumman suggestions and plans were used by Chengdu and undoubtedly influenced the 1992 Super Seven version that China and Pakistan first looked at, the current FC-1 which came about after the 1999 memorandum has arrived from a very different set of circumstances from the Super Seven.
People following the history of the plane see three phases:
1. Grumman’s upgrade – the original Super 7,
2. the 1992 attempt to revive the project after the US embargo; this particular Super 7 version was the first to be pitched to Pakistan and was delayed because of Pakistan’s insistence on Western avionics and weapons,
3. the 1999 agreement to continue with an open architecture that would allow for future western subsystems.
The Pakistani requirements and Chengdu decision to go with no set engine, radar or even FCS to allow for PAF changes in the future meant that the 1999 version of the FC-1 amounted to an entirely new plane.
It is no longer a derivative of the J-7 but the overall planform (with the side intakes) still follows the original Grumman S-7 design for Chengdu, though there are differences. But since Grumman was cut off from China in 1989 and the current open architecture FC-1 began in earnest in 1999/2000, whatever the Grumman contributed was diluted by 10 years of different requirements and Chengdu revamping..
The other supposed points of origins like the MiG-33, the IAR-95 and a whole bunch of other failures are too silly to comment on.
GoldenDragonMajor, major news if true. A new boomer and attack SSN. But Gertz tend to jump the gun in raising the “Chinese threat” 🙂
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041202-115302-2338r.htm
China tests ballistic missile submarine
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMESChina’s military has launched the first of a new class of ballistic missile submarines in what defense officials view as a major step forward in Beijing’s strategic weapons program.
The new 094-class submarine was launched in late July and when fully operational in the next year or two will be the first submarine to carry the underwater-launched version of China’s new DF-31 missile, according to defense officials.
“When fully operational, it will represent a more modern, more capable missile platform,” said one official familiar with reports of the new submarine.
“When fully operational, it will represent a more modern, more capable missile platform,” said one official familiar with reports of the new submarine.
A second intelligence official said building submarines is a top priority of the Chinese, and the Type 094 will be “China’s first truly intercontinental strategic nuclear delivery system.”
The new Type 094 was spotted by U.S. intelligence agencies at the Huludao shipyard, located on the coast of Bohai Bay, some 250 miles northwest of Beijing.
The submarine is in the early stages of being outfitted and is not yet equipped with new JL-2 submarine-launched nuclear missiles.
. . .
Richard Fisher, vice president of the Washington-based International Assessment and Strategy Center, said the launch of the new missile submarine is “an astounding development.”
“The 094 has followed 093 development far more rapidly than the assessments in the annual Pentagon reports on the PLA,” Mr. Fisher said, referring to the China’s People’s Liberation Army.
China also recently launched a new attack submarine known as the Type 093. Additionally, U.S. intelligence agencies were surprised by China’s disclosure in July of a third new type of submarine known as the Yuan-class, a diesel-electric attack submarine.
. . .
Mr. Fisher said the JL-2 likely will have multiple warheads.
. . .
The report stated that the JL-2 is expected to have a longer range than the DF-31 and that 16 JL-2s will be deployed on the new submarine.
The range of the JL-2 is estimated to be about 7,500 miles, enough “to strike targets throughout the United States,” the report said.
. . .
GoldenDragonHere’s a fun speculation from good ole Billy GertZ 😀
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041202-115302-2338r.htm
China tests ballistic missile submarine
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMESChina’s military has launched the first of a new class of ballistic missile submarines in what defense officials view as a major step forward in Beijing’s strategic weapons program.
The new 094-class submarine was launched in late July and when fully operational in the next year or two will be the first submarine to carry the underwater-launched version of China’s new DF-31 missile, according to defense officials.
“When fully operational, it will represent a more modern, more capable missile platform,” said one official familiar with reports of the new submarine.
GoldenDragonHere’s a belated story from the Zhuhai airshow on an exported Chinese ejection seat.
Another 100 TY7A ejections seats has been contracted to be sold abroad. The TY7A seat is used on the K-8 which is an indication the Karakorum trainer is still selling rather briskly (though Pakistani and and the Egyptian K-8Es use Martin-Bakers.)
http://english.people.com.cn/200411/03/eng20041103_162600.html
China-made ejection seats launched abroad
A life-saving rocket ejection seat made in China is expected to extricate more foreign pilots and crew in dire emergencies, thanks to an export deal signed yesterday in this coastal city in Guangdong Province, reported China Daily on Wednesday.
The Aerospace Life-Support Industries Ltd (ALI), based in Xiangfan in Hubei Province, signed a contract with the China National Aero-Technology Import-Export Corp Group to sell another 100 TY7A rocket ejection seats abroad, ALI President Luo Qunhui said yesterday.
The contract also seeks to export ALI’s personal protection and parachute products through the company. The deal followed sales of 100 such “life-savers” in five Asian and African countries by 2003, Luo said.
Mostly used in military aircraft, an ejection seat is a sophisticated system designed to rescue the pilot or other crew members in case the aircraft is in imminent danger, experts said.
In ALI’s design, the seat is catapulted out of the aircraft by a rocket motor pack carrying the pilot with it. Upon clearing of the aircraft in distress, the seat deploys a parachute to descend to the ground safely.
“China’s rocket-propelled seat is on par with foreign advanced ejection seats,” Luo said. “Some of its functions are even superior to foreign counterparts.”
The products have been exported to countries including Myanmar, Namibia, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and the Sudan.
The new TY7A seats will be fitted on K-8 series trainers China exports to developing countries, he said.
China began to use TY7A seats in its exporting K-8 planes, to replace the British company Martin-Baker’s ejection seats in 1998, according to the Chinese company officials.
Martin-Baker seats reportedly saved 7,028 lives through December last year.
The ALI company declined to specify how many pilots had successfully survived crashes by using the TY7A rocket-powered seat or a score of other models it has developed over the past decade.
ALI Vice-President Zhang Guangjian said the seats have monopolized the Chinese military plane market and have been selling well to foreign countries.
They have proven highly reliable and saved “many lives,” he said.
In addition to reliability, the Chinese products are competitive in price, maintenance and technical support, he said.
The company is showing its rocket ejection seats, life-jackets and personal protection products, including those for head protection, temperature regulating and nuclear-biochemical protection, at the ongoing fifth Air Show China, which runs until Sunday.
GoldenDragonIs this the one??
It could well be. From the writing those definitely had appeared on Japanese TV at some point. Note the gray paintjob is different from the blue of earlier Y-8X/MPAs photographed by Japanese, Korean or American forces.
Great picts again! You’re rapidly becoming a prime PLA watcher, Hyperwarp! 😀
GoldenDragonAre there some real data available?
“The Kunlun II actually has a significantly higher dry thrust than the RD-93.”
Translates into > 60 kN/90 kN engine. :confused:
The Kunlun II: 53.98 kN dry, 76.53 kN with the afterburner. (1)
The RD-93: 49.4 kN dry or 81.4 kN with afterburning. (2)
Actually the 53.98kN is official from the 2002 Zhuhai airshow. The Chinese newsgroups report larger thrust figures but I won’t get into those. The RD-93’s figures are pretty much everywhere.
I’ve no idea where you pulled “Translates into > 60 kN/90 kN” out of.
———————————————————
Notes:
(1)http://www.idds.org/acr2003/707e4CAR02.html
“4 November AT THE ZHUHAI AIR SHOW CHINA INTRODUCED A NEW TURBOJET ENGINE, THE KUNLUN II, TO POWER THE F-7 AND F-8 FIGHTER AIRCRAFT. The engine develops a thrust in excess of 53.98 kN, 76.53 kN with the afterburner. According to a spokesman for China Aviation Corp I’s Shenyang Engine Institute, which developed the Kunlun series, it is “the first [Chinese developed jet] aero engine which has finished the whole process of design, pre-production, test, and “test-flight.” The Kunlun II’s thrust approaches that of the world’s most advanced jet engines of the mid-1980s. {Robert Karniol in JDW 20.11.02}”
(2) http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRFC-1.htm
“Klimov RD-93
Thrust (Schub): 1 x 81,4 kN (18300 lbs) with afterburner and 49,4 kN dry”
GoldenDragonThe WS-13 was rumoured to be equivelent to the RD-93. Does anyone have any further details on this or any other alternative indigenous Chinese engines that may be planned for the FC-1.
There are two, possibly three, medium thrust engines suitable for the FC-1 under development in China.
There is the Kunlun family based on a turbojet core. Kunlun III is supposed to be a turbofan. The Kunlun II actually has a significantly higher dry thrust than the RD-93.
There is also a rather mysterious turbofan from Southern Aero-Engine Corp. cited as a “competitor” to Kunlun by Dr. Alexandr Nemets. (1)
It is unknown whether that the WS-13 is actually the Southern Aero-Engine Corp. turbofan or if it is a third engine (maybe a Chinese development off the RD-93 base?)
Now, the Kunlun had gotten the most official publicity of all Chinese engines and that includes the WS-10. I would imagine that it would have a great chance of powering the FC-1 are some point in the future. But if the WS-13 is based on the RD-93/33 then it would require far less testing and would be more probable in the short run.
—————————————————————————
Notes:
(1)Chinese Airshow, Part Two, 2002
“in April, Southern Aero-Engine Corp., located in Zhuzhou city of Hunan province in central China, finished indigenous development of turbofan engine destined for modern fighters. New engine successfully passed the tests.”
“Southern Aero-Engine Corp., also subordinated to AVIC-2, will probably bring to Zhuhai its newly developed turbofan engine (competitor of Kunlun engine) as well as new air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles.”
GoldenDragonHere’s a crop of a larger J-10 photo that I’ve never seen before. Unsure if the foreground and parts of buildings were added to the picture. But the J-10 inself looks real enough.
GoldenDragonAccording to the Chinese language newsgroups, 16 of the new J-7Gs are being flown by an operational unit in Xinjiang.
Also, it was reported that a Y-8MPA photographed a joint Japanese-American exercise in November. It probably belonged to the PLAN’s North Sea Fleet.
GoldenDragontesting HJ-9 on Z-9…..?
Z-9G variant?
GoldenDragonTo me, these statements of “we won’t sell to Pakistan because of Indian protest” seem a way to exact cooperation.
We have no idea what would happen if there is a 500-engine order for the FC-1. To me, it would seem very hard for the Russians to pass up. But then again, there won’t be such a contract at all so Russia can say what it wants to gain a little more leverage.
But the following report indicates that Russia doesn’t necessarily bar deals with Pakistan unless Indian deferment to Russian interests is met.
http://www.ptinews.com/pti/ptisite.nsf/$All/CF523C87F5D1EC0E65256F5D005…
Russia will not sell arms to Pak if India honours interests
Dec 1, 2004 10:28:00 PM.MOSCOW FES120
MOSCOW, Dec 1 (PTI) Russia will not sell any arms to Pakistan provided India fully honoured Moscow’s interests in mutual defence cooperation, a Russian official reportedly said today.“If India will not fully honour our interests, then there is no need to attach strings, conditions and demands from Russia not to trade (in arms) with Pakistan,” an unnamed defence ministry source was quoted as saying by the state-run RIA Novosti agency ahead of Russian President Putin’s India visit.
Pointing that currently at the request of India, Moscow is not co-operating with Islamabad in defence sector, the official said that in case India does not keep in view Russia’s interests, the military ties with Pakistan can be resumed.
So far Russia has supplied Mi-17 dual-purpose helicopters to Pakistan. PTI
GoldenDragonAnother flipflop. Maybe we should expect more in the future, depending on who is asking the Russians.
In October, officials of the Chernyshev plant outside Moscow that builds the RD-93 (RD-33) said unequivocably that there is no problem with the engine being exported to a third country and that they are expecting orders in the 100s. I posted this in the China’s news, picts and spec thread.
This was reaffirmed again at Zhuhai when article describing Russia’s large presence at the air show included an official telling reporters that Russia is expecting to supply powerplants for the FC-1 which they expect to be a very large number.
But the key word might be Chernyshev is “expecting” a contract. The FC-1 has never been tied to the RD-93. Repeatedly, the FC-1 is described in Chinese articles as a open architecture where engine and even FCS could be re-configured.
If the China has not contracted the RD-93 except for the prototype machines then the Russians have little lose in soothing the Indians and saying they will not provide engines to a plane where they won’t get the contract anyways.
GoldenDragonThe S-70 Blackhawk. China had that helo since the 1980s. It is extremely popular but it was never reverse-engineered. China instead went like license production of a whole line of Eurocopter products.
The F-16 Falcon, China had access since the 1980s from Pakistan. It was never reverse-engineered.
RE is not easy, especially with highly sophisticated Western systems. It is far easier to go with a design from scratch that incorporates ideas gleamed from a S-70 or a F-16 than to make an exact copy.
The J-11 is the Chinese assembled copy of the Su-27SK. But even with license production there are lots of changes during the production process. According to the Chinese newsgroups, Russian pilots said the J-11 feels and handles like a totally different plane from the Su-27. This is for a plane that includes all the blueprints from the original manufacturers.
So in reverse engineering where there are no or incomplete blueprints, the deviation from the original can be very large (such as the J-7 is to the MiG-21 or the Y-8 to An-12.)
GoldenDragonGood thread to keep all the PAF developments.
BTW, the CN-235 is a very interesting transport. Jointly developed and manufactured by CASA (Spain) and Indonesia. Considered a very useful turboprop, it has been exported to two dozen air forces.
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