Yes, its the second part of that article, the part on the J-10. I flicked through it at lunch time today!

Ohhhh … You already have that second part ???? 😮

Deino 😉

The reason why the oppose this is becasue they feel offended, they will be intrenched upon a false believe due to pride.

I don’t think that this is the reason ! No-one here denied a Russian or a Israeli assistance. Most of us only oppose that stupid statement that the J-10 is nothing more than a Lavi reworked by Russians … not to speak of that WP-13 issue for a possible first prototype !

Is that the second half of the two-part thing on the J-10 Paul? I didn’t think the next issue had appeared yet, (it still probably hasn’t appeared over here just yet). Is it any good?

I like that article very much … it was a very good read even if some things can be discussed it’s for my opinion the first article in a Western magazine that not only repeats that J-10 = Lavi-copy theme !

If You like here is the complete scan of that article:

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=2252

Didn’t Israel design the Arye fighter jet? Never got built, but that’s design experience. IAI also built the Lavi demonstrators, so there’s actual production experience as well.

In Germany we would say “Jein” as a mix of YES and NO !

The Arye was actually at first the project behind the Lavi as it was started to explose several configurations. One of them became the Lavi as it was finally flown.

Cheers, Deino 😀

If you want to me select a reason in between brilliant or foolish, I and the rest will go the brilliant, do you?

Thanks a lot for that !!!

I just need to change that statement only a little but to sum up this discussion:

If you want to me select a version in this discussion between a brilliant argumentation or a foolish list of unreliable sources without any technical argument to support it, I and the rest will go the brilliant, do you ?

I think there are some more who think the same !

Deino 😀

Deino

Let`s go by parts

Russian sources claim the israelies and Chinese struck a secret deal in which they commited to further develop the IAI Lavi, the motives were clear, Israel needed china as a weapons customer and did not want to waste the IAI Lavi Technology paid for, the documentation pertaining to the IAI Lavi was delivered to Chengdu, Chengdu got leadership of the program and they developed with the Israeli a prototype fitted with the best engine China had. the WP-13, the engine and aircraft fell short of expectations, pressured by China, Russia accepted to be a partner, they fitted a better engine, the Al-31. SIBNIA ( Chaplygin Siberian Aeronautical Research Institute / SIBNIA) did some design work for the Chinese.

China recieved assistance in radar, weaponry and aerodynamics by Russian and Israeli engineers.

If you want to accept this version that goes very well with Western claims of Israel passing that technology, well is up to you.

but is more less what the Russians say

Russian sources claim at least 500 J-10s will be built, and up to 1500 if everything goes on schedule

Ok …. that’s one side of the medal … or the first version !!

But what do You think about that version ???

“The J-10 project was conceived in the 1984 based on the experience (tailless delta wing and canard foreplanes) with J-9 which was cancelled in 1980 in favor of the less risky J-7C/MIG-21MF project. An early model of J-10 revealed a Mirage 2000 style intake with a center shock cone for better high speed performance and a Lavi style tail section, suggesting a possible connection with the cancelled Israeli fighter (however this was firmly denied by both parties). The change indicates that J-10 has gone through at least one major redesign in its 18-year development period from the initial conventional layout as an air-superiority fighter to the latest semi-stealthy design as a multi-role fighter. This change may reflect a shift of its potential adversaries from former Soviet Mig-29/Su-27 to current American F-15/16/18 after end of the Cold War.

The development of J-10 has not been smooth. A full-scale mock-up was built in 1993. High-speed taxing occurred in 1996. The first prototype was set to fly in 1996, powered by a newly designed WS-10 turbofan based on the CFM56 engine core technology. However the development of this indigenous engine suffered some serious difficulties and thus the rear fuselage and engine intake were forced to be redesigned in order to accommodate an alternative AL-31FN engine imported from Russia. After a 15-month delay, the first prototype (01) made its maiden flight on March 23, 1998, two years behind the schedule. 6 prototypes (serial numbers 1002-1009) were built undergoing various static and flight tests at CAC in Chengdu and at the CFTE in Yanliang. Subsequently 3 more prototypes were built (1013-1016) as the project was moving into the pre-production phase while PLAAF remained fully committed. The flight test of J-10 was completed by the end of 2003 and the serial production started earlier that year. Approximately two are being produced each month. A total of 300 have been planned. The first J-10A in production standard first flew on June 28, 2002.

…. and so on: So You say Huitong is completely wrong ??

http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm

Or – as a compromise between both: Once apon a time there was a Lavi secretly delivered to China, the copied and powered by a WP-13. After the Chinese were unhappy with the flight test results they decided to redesign and improve it by adding the AL-31FN ! :p … and that all in a very short time because of Russian help !!!

…. which is pure nonsense as it would require a complete re-design not only for the larger-diameter Russian engine, but also for the intake and the fuselage and the wing …. which makes it de facto a completly new aircraft !

And that’s it – nothing more and nothing less – the Lavi is the Lavi and the J-10 is the J-10 !

Deino

No man you are wrong, first we are not talking about subjectivity or reliability, we are talking what is the Russian opinion about the J-10 and you forget also that the Russians did develop that aircraft too, it is not the same with a German or French or Brazilian or what ever the source because the Russians are already acknowledged as have worked on the J-10 program.

I do not care you think the links are false or unreliable, i am only interested in what the vast majority of Russian articles claim about the J-10.

And that’s once again the point !! Not the number of links or “sources” is important but the quaility and even if the Russians tell there that they are the co-developer of the J-10 that need not to be true !

I’m not denying that the Russians gave great help on that project especially as You point out it’s powered by a Russian engine.

I’m angry about that always repeated false argument that the J-10 is a Lavi clone … and that false statement doesn’t become reality only because some Russian links say so !

Deino 😡