DeinoDoes anyone know the designation of this targeting pod ??? I’ve not seen it before …
Deino
….
Oh NO, please not the MiG-29K/KUB also in this ugly dark-grey !??:mad:
DeinoRegading the Ermak:
Sorry but isn’t start of development in 2016 and begin of mass production already in 2023-2024 “said Sergei” completely unrealistically ???
Here it sounds as if development will only begin in 2024 !
Mass production of advanced transport aircraft Ermak should be started in 2024
Ilyushin Company plans to start the development of next-generation transport aircraft dubbed Ermak in 2016, Interfax-AVN reports.
“In 2016 we are going to start the development of a family of heavy transport aircraft with a payload of 80 tons and more. These are wide-body aircraft. The next-generation transport aircraft was dubbed Ermak. It is planned to start the airliner’s mass production in 2024”, – CEO of Ilyushin Company, Sergey Sergeev, said.
He noted that Ilyushin Company is facing a great challenge. The whole transport aircraft fleet must be replaced: light, medium, heavy and long-range heavy aircraft segments. “We hope to start the development of a military-transport aircraft with a payload of under 20 tons as soon as possible (the aircraft will replace An-12 vehicles) in the network of MTA project, which is being implemented by Russia and India”, – S.Sergeev added.
DeinoTold ya so a while ago 😉 Among the three non-US fifth-generation designs currently flying, the J-31 has by far and away the worst fit and finish. Matt paint strikes again – that’s the ONLY reason it wasn’t so obvious until now. I seem to recall somebody here even thought it was better than the J-20 (quite glossy) in that regard? Boy, is it ever worse!
Yes, exactly what I meant ! I only wanted to show that I’m not (at least not completely :angel:) biased in favour or the J-31 or against anything from Russia ! Overall I thought we concluded that sometimes we get these impressions indeed mostly related / depending the lighting conditions !
Get a life, gents… it’s a bloody prototype..
if it can take-off, fly and land, and then repeat this ~600 times, then it has already done the job perfectly.
Yeppp, it is a testbed like I already said … and I’m sure after the planned testphase has been concluded it will form a fine exhibit at either the Datangshan museum or even better the SAC headquarter; as such do not make more fuss about it than it deserves … More interesting therefore is surely how no. 2 will look like, what engines it will use and even more if there’s indeed a potential customer (either PLAAF/PLANAF or even Pakistan) behind.
As such even if some again will cry it’s simply “look a copy of xyz” (to admit I thought we had already superseded this level ?? … or do some still think the A310 is a B767, the Concorde a Tu-144, … the J-10 a Lavi ??? ) here’s an interesting comparison; seems as if SAC already had access to the F-22 data ! :dev2:
Deino
DeinoI must confess I’m also disappointed about the surface quality !
DeinoMaybe a strange or even stupid question: But how far can these Chinese enterprises act individually and develop – completely on own resources – a project like this ??
I really can’t believe that this is a private venture only. Maybe I simply do not understand the structure of the Chinese aviation industry good enough but since these are all state-owned enterprises I tend to say that this is in fact a silently PLA-baked or at least supported program, that runs in parallel to the J-20 with a much lower priority but for the future requirement it is indeed planned to be introduced … if successful. As such development proceeds at a lower level and even more it can act as a PR-action to show the achievements of the Chinese Industry, to gain interest from foreign countries to assist and co-found that program …. until founds can be officially allocated to run it on a higher priority !
By the way I never noticed this airbrake before …
Deino
DeinoThanks to both !
To admit – even if most in other Chinese forums don’t agree here with me – I actually don’t understand why the PLAAF refuses to order 48 at least ? … only 24 really do not make sense, other than if You only want the 117S ! However two regiments with the new type would make sense, they would be available much sooner than any J-11D-MLU and could open the window for the J-20 to use this engine too.
As such it might be in fact a fight for the engines from the Chinese side (what can be settled by ordering simply more Su-35) and the eager will to get finally a first export customer from the Russian side. But I think like already said, the main factor is $$$$ … what in the other way could be solved.
Deino
Deino…
Back to the J-31, what are the planned thrust figures of the WS-13 engines? Are they even being seriously developed? Regarding the RD-93, is it this smokey when fitted on the JF-17?
To admit – and as already posted somewhere else – the WS-13 is for me almost as mystical as the Yeti, the monster of Loch Ness or Bigfoot. As such I’m highly skeptical about this engine and as long as not other surprising engine-option jumps out of the hat similar skeptical about the FC-31/J-31 project at all.
We’ve heard since hears from this powerplant, we’ve heard about problems, a test flight in a JF-17, problems and delays again but so – at least as I remember – not even a single image ! … Is this engine still alive or has it died already a silent death similar to the WP-14 Kunlun ??
Deino
DeinoBesides these funny jokes 😀 … ahs there been any substantial news in regard to this deal ? What does Russian sources say, why it is still not signed ?`
Deino
DeinoThe X-35 was powered by a modified Pratt & Whitney F119 engine that generated around 38,000 pounds of thrust. It was also not as heavy as the F-35.
Uppps, then sorry for my fault !
DeinoObviously my F135 sarcasm was lost both on yourself and levsha’s *useful* interjection (note sarcasm denoted by *-*).
Anyways, my post had nothing to do with engines & power, smoking or non-smoking. It had everything to do with the design of the J-31 (or whatever it’s called this week), from an aerodynamic perspective and the inherent flaws in the F-22/35 ‘mash-up’. An apparent lacklustre performance @ Zhuhai merely poses valid questions and certainly adds to the credence of that post.
So, Deino, instead of getting all hysterical & irrational, be a dear and ask Frankvw to reinstate it will you? 谢谢。
Yes I will do so but I hope if Your post is indeed simply gone away within the endless WWW … could You please discuss again what were these “inherent flaws in the F-22/35 ‘mash-up’ ” ???
By the way I beg You – maybe Your sarcasm really got lost; maybe due to my bad English – please don’t call me again “sweetie” … otherwise I get the feeling You misunderstand my posts in a completely wrong way ! :love-struck: Ohhh, ‘chérie’ Du machst mich ganz an, wenn Du sagtst so schmutzige Dinge über misch ! :love-struck:
Deino
DeinoDeino sweetie, do you think the F-35 is underpowered? I can assure you my only intention is to encourage debate, is that OK?
Besides, let’s let the Mods on KeyPubs’ Mt. Olympus decide.
Am I speaking Chinese ??? … and why exactly like I mentioned comparing the J-31 with the F-35 ??? As such a honest debate is fine but stick to the facts please.
NO, the F-35 is not surely underpowered and YES, the J-31 surely is underpowered, but in comparison to what the current serial F-35 was planned to do, the original X-35 demonstrator was underpowered with its F100 in the same way the current J-31 is with the RD-33 or RD-93; maybe we should call it JX-31 for a better understanding ? Or am I wrong ???
I think we are not that far off to each other, but again why comparing a “fully” (?) developed serial fighter with a technical demonstrator ?
If someone feels fine with that comparison, so then it’s fine for him (of the JSF-Mafia) …
For a fair debate You mention I would compare the X-35 to the current FC-31 (both are apples) and later the F-35 to a maybe J-31 (bananas).
What I surely can admit is that a possible serial J-31 will only appear if a decent engine can be found and IMO not even an uprated RD-93 would be such an option.
Deino
DeinoOhh I feel a field of mines lying in front of me …
To admit, I agree, there is a really severe crash in Jane’s quality regarding China. Just look at the report about the J-31-striker version, based on a small grainy CG made in a University related article not even to SAC … .
I have the feeling that esp. from the US media it is a common behavior to show “hey they want to become a superpower, they are getter more and more dangerous, they are spying around – esp. our beloved US military industry – and investing billions of $$$$, but hey, they are first of all not smart enough to catch up, they still lack behind and it they will never catch up since we are Americans, the Pacific is ours !”
But let’s take a more serious look especially regarding the J-31 and please take it simply for what it is: It is a technical demonstrator, build more or less as a “private” (as far as this is possible in China) venture by AVIC. As such they are in fact correct, this type is right now underpowered, too heavy (in relation to the engine’s thrust) it certainly lacks a fully operational mission suite and has surely some flaws here and there. Yes so what … look at the evolution from X-35 to F-35 … and the same if it will proceed goes here for the J-31. No one would have claimed such stupid things about other technical demonstrators like the JSF-testbirds, the British EAP, the X-29 and X-31 …, even the Russian Su-47/S-37 flew with “old” smoky engines.
Overall I rate this design a good basis to develop a decent medium-size fighter to replace older J-7, J-8, and so on … but the fate of it is simply connected to the availability of a decent powerplant. If SAC can’t find a modern medium-sized high-thrust turbofan – and this excludes even the latest RD-93 IMO – then it will fail.
I think as such we need to sit down and take a deep breath and wait … maybe we need some tea to wait even longer
But that’s just my opinion.Deino
I think I simply need to repeat myself ! No wonder that this bird is underpowered: It’s a dated off-the shelf engine – since nothing else suitable was available – for a technical demonstrator !
It’s really strange: A few years ago no one expected to see a “modern” Chinese Fighter in the air, even more in a public flight display … now it’s another reason to criticize it by simply omitting the fact that it is only a technical demonstrator. Again critics if justified are surely not the problem even more since it makes even more clear where still the Chinese Achilles-heel lies – ENGINES – , but to dismiss this type and measure even more its combat effectiveness as one is comparing it to the F-35 is plain wrong like comparing apples to bananas !
Again only my two cents.
Deino
DeinoThanks a lot !
DeinoThanks … so it is indeed an IFR-pod, but what’s ist exact designation, since it is not the Standard UPAZ we know from the IL-78, the Su-34, … and the CHinese J-15.
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