What growing relationship with west? India just signed a deal for $ 5bil for Pak-Fa and another for $ 600 mil for MRTA with Russia. The red flag is just another exercise and does not mean Su-30 MKI will be compromised. The PAK-FA will be MKIzed so russian AF is never likely to suffer.

broncho, the deal is not yet signed as price and work-share negotiations are ongoing and which will take many months. Only an MoU has been signed.

abhimanyu, only one request first LET IT fly in 2009, then we will easily come to know about the Indian contribution into it.

joey, as per the director of United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) chief Alexey Fedorov, the design of PAK-FA has been already frozen and production is about to begin. One prototype of PAK-FA has also been manufactured. It must be mentioned that India had rejected the PAK-FA proposal in Aug. 2006 on account of its lack of any Indian participation of any kind. India had also submitted its basic QSRs to Russia in 2006, but they were rejected by Russia as the design of the PAK-FA had already been sealed.

Also, as per a report from Aviaport.ru (translated from Russian), the detailed documention of the PAK-FA’s design is being digitalized and preparations for the production of the same are being undertaken. An incomplete avionics suite, weapons and engines will be installed.

joey, that PAK-FA will fly in 2009 may be guaranteed, but what is also certain, officially clarified and deduced from events is that it shall have none to negligible Indian share.
It may be mentioned that no IAF or Indian official has been reported to have inspected the PAK-FA; only paper designs have been evaluated.

References :-

1) Report by journalist Shiv Aroor, “Farce generation fighter aircraft“
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html

2) Russian translated report from Aviaport.Ru (from JaiS, bharat-rakshak forum).

Firstly, the death of the MCA is at least partially due to technical reasons in that that Indian industry is simply not capable of completing such a programme in a realistic time frame, arguments such as ‘so what if it’s inferior to PAK-FA/F-22? so long as it benefits Indian aerospace’ are militarily facile.

Otaku, though there is general consensus that MCA can be produced in time, however, we may not discuss it further as it is purely a matter of subjective analysis and debate. It will be endless arguing.

However, that point that you made that, “so what if MCA is inferior so long as it benefits Indian aerospace” is practically a valid point, because India can afford that much time and off-guard laxity on the 5th G front. That is because, it is very unlikely that 5th G fighters will be seen in India’s immediate neighbourhood even in the very long term. Probably only after 2025 onwards will they just start emerging from China.

Secondly, with Russian govt. coffers bursting at the seams, Indian money (though welcome) is no longer relevant. In fact, in at least the last 12 months it has been the Indian govt/MOD that has been clamouring for T-50 involvement.

Actually, as late as August 2006, the Indian defence ministry had rejected the PAK-FA proposal to the visiting Russian delegation at the time. The reason given was India’s absence from the Drawing board stage itself. The relevant news report is here

It’s laughable that the Indian press is touting this as the ‘Indo-Russian FGFA JV”- though the 50/50 JV will be the MKI-ising of PAK-FA and has nothing to do with RuAF’s variant

That is probably because the Indian media is “hand-in-glove” with the Arms dealers politicians and defence personnel who have vested interests in purchasing the PAK-FA and sidelining the indigenous MCA.

And what’s so bad about a PAK-FA-MKI? All said and done, the Su-30MKI has been a big success and if the PAK-FA delivers on its promise the IAF is sure to get a nice fighter.

Trident, the issue is not time or acquiring as you said, a “nice” fighter. The issue is the certain and planned expiry of the MCA project and the indigenous aerospace industry overall.

The MCA is DRDO’s indigenous proposal.

However, the IAF and Defence ministry together are purposely ignoring it to purchase the foreign PAK-FA. To justify this purchase, they are lying to Indian public by terming it as a “strategic joint venture”, when in reality it is no more than licence production.

Perhaps even with more involvement and additional independence compared to today’s Su-30MKI, as pointed out above. Looking at the LCA, and the Kaveri engine in particular, it is far from certain that the MCA would arrive in a timely manner (not that the PAK-FA is moving as fast as might be desirable, but you get my drift).

Please note that Kaveri engine is exclusive and independent of the Tejas project and it will be so for the MCA too. Just as for the Tejas, if Kaveri is not completed, then any foreign engine can be purchased and installed in the MCA.

Thanks.

Hello. I am Abhimanyu. This is my first post on this forum. You may also refer to me as Abhiman.

I am of the view that the PAK-FA project’s description as a “Joint Venture”, is only a euphemism for licence production. Not only is the design, avionics and weapon systems of the airplane designed solely by Russia (for the Russian air force), its working prototype is also complete—-without a “speck” of Indian technological contribution and IAF’s vision for it.

In return for a payment of $5 billion dollars, India has practically purchased the Russian Intellectual Property of PAK-FA, and licence production rights in India. The Defence ministry and IAF are cheating the Indian public by declaring it as a “Joint venture” and “co development”.

Seriously, do you think if Russia had the money, Sukhoi would have even approached India?

I agree with this view. Russia requires India to only finance the PAK-FA project. They have accumulated 75 years of experience in developing legendary fighter planes of all eras and really do not need outside technology to develop a 5th G fighter plane for the 21st century.

The only constraint is funding, for which India has been invited as a “50% partner”. The ‘fine-print’ in the agreement clearly states that India will be a 50% partner in only funding the project; thereafter, it will be allowed to modify (i.e. “tweak”) the PAK-FA.
This is no different (even less significant) than the Su-30 MKI project, which provided India with a Russian airframe and substantial Russian systems, to which India just added—albeit world-class—mission computers, radar processors, RWR, communication suites etc.

The indigenous MCA has been purposely ignored by the IAF and Defence ministry for reasons ranging from profiteering as arms middlemen in importing weaponry to prejudice toward any indigenous development.