The Telegraph is reporting this again today.

This is the same newspaper that only a month ago reported that the defence budget was balanced and even had a surplus of £2bn (coincidence?).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9086975/MoD-balances-books-first-time-in-four-decades-Defence-Secretary-to-announce.html

From what I’ve read in it over the last few years it is not in favour of building them in the first place and looking at any opportunity to put it in a bad light.

I guess that this is going to be a political decision rather than a military or financial one. It depends on whether the PM is able to manage the volte-face, both domestically and overseas and from what I’ve read I’m under the impression we have already lost political capital with the USMC when we chose in 2010 to swap to the C version.

If we did decide to go with the F-35B, would this mean we are able to reintroduce carrier aviation much earlier than 2020 and if so wouldn’t that have a financial impact too?

Yes in theory, but not by much and only at significant cost. The plan from the start was that the first aircraft to fly from these carriers was the Harriers we already had, the RAF and RN would then transition to the F35b. In theory we could buy some low rate production F35bs but I believe they would cost about $200m a pop, whichi sounds like very little saving to me.

I will say that it looks like the MOD are going to make a short term cost saving decision here and go with a solution that is the wrong one in the long term.

Judging by some of the European posters attitudes here regarding Israel it becomes much much easier to understand how the Holocaust happened in the first place. Antisemitism must be so deeply ingrained in continental Europe that they just cant help themselves but hate us Jews.

Anti Isreali does not equal antisemitism.

The Times are quoting a letter by the Shadow Defence Minister Jim Murphy, seems that much of these so called ‘doubts’ can be sourced back to his statements.

For me it sounds like a nonsense-statement. Let us wait for better informations.

Maybe but it did come from the Russian Federation Armed Forces General Staff, so you’d expect them to know what they’re talking about.

😀 The Kiev class was a big cruiser with helicopters to hunt submarines and Yak-38 to defend itself (not an attack carrier!). The new ships will be amphibious assault ships – with a very light armament. Also e.g. the WASP class has missile launchers… Not in every case as much aircraft as possible is the goal…

Thanks I know what it was, Wasp has SAMs, the statement on these new ships states that they will have SAMs, cruise missiles and anti submarine armament, if Russia had a STOVL/VTOL aircraft in it’s inventory it would probably get them too, the differences aren’t so large.

http://www.armstass.su/?page=article&aid=104085&cid=24

Russian Mistrals, unlike the French Navy ones, will have stronger anti-air, anti missile, and anti-submarine defenses.

Kiev class 2.

As for Shadow Defence Secretary Jim Murphys comments:

If his government (and the prior Tory as well to be fair) hadn’t starved British ship yards of orders then they might of been in a better position to make them in Britain. If prior governments had also supported British shipbuilding properly to allow it to join the Cruise ship building boom then they would of been in a better position to bid on this kind of contract and complex ship building would of been cheaper to boot through the economies of shifting personnel between civil and military ship building…There is a reason why Navantia win all those orders these days!

It’s also true that the plan to build these tankers under labour was more or less the same, foreign yards! His statement is rank hypocrisy.

I’m wondering if the Rafale victory in India shouldn’t be a good time to let bygones be bygones. The pro-Rafale crowd have clearly been deeply scarred by years of Typhoon abuse and I think as part of their therapy we should all agree to move on…

I propose these points of general agreement:

1. Both aircraft are very good at certain things
2. Rafale is an excellent aircraft and a credit to the French.
3. Typhoon will get advanced a2g weapons carriage and AESA on the timescales suggested (2015 shall we say?)
4. That both aircraft have been export successes says something about the massive latent potential of European Aerospace and fighter design despite an ever changing market.

If you are prepared to sign up to this agreement then we shall call it the Sarum Accord and from this day forth we shall all know where we stand with each other!

This might help stop passions being inflamed by certain posters who just like watching us abuse each other……

Hoorah ! (wipes a tear from his eye)….

Good luck with this, you haven’t got a hope though, too many members of this forum like to cause a ruck.