This is a reputed picture of the Hercules after it was destroyed, taken from this website, however I would dispute this claim, as it appears to be an early version, four balded prop.

I reckon this is a photograph of the failed Iranian US Embassy rescue attempt on 25 April 1980, when a C130 collided with a CH53 on takeoff killing 8 servicemen.

You are correct. They have ripped off the image.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/apjinternational/apj-s/2006/3tri06/kampseng.html

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/spotting/cottesmore.html

If we use the Russian text you find the following conclusions

24 июля 1982 г., 16:50 – в ходе поиска сирийского ЗРК «Оса» в долине Бекаа «Фантом» сбит двумя ЗУР, выпущенными ЗРК «Квадрат». Оба члена экипажа катапультировались. Штурман майор Аhарон Кац разбился – его парашют не раскрылся полностью и он погиб на месте от удара о землю. Лётчик, капитан Гиль Фогель, попал в плен. Фогель и останки Каца были возвращены в Израиль в 28.06.84 г., в рамках договора с Сирией об обмене пленными (всего в Израиль в тот день были возвращены 3 пленных и 6 тел погибших) («Журнал ВВС Израиля», №141, июль 1984 г., стр. 10-11, 14; №218, октябрь-ноябрь 1997 г., стр. 24-30). По-видимому, сбитый «Фантом» являлся разведчиком F-4E(S) или RF-4E. По данным журнала “Air International” (январь 1999 г., стр. 44) все 3 F-4E(S) оставались на вооружении и после 1982 г., т.е. сбитый самолёт – RF-4E. Этот журнал также утверждает, что через некоторое время место падения этого самолёта было подвергнуто бомбардировке израильской авиацией и 11 советских специалистов, занимавшихся поиском среди обломков деталей секретной аппаратуры, погибли.

One is that the israelies lost an F-4 on June 24th 1982, that they do not know if it was an RF-4E(S) or an RF-4R, that flight international mentioned in its issue of January 1999 page 44 that Israel kep their three RF-4E(S) operational after 1982 so that using flight international it was an RF-4E the aircraft shot down, that the israelies indeed bombed the F-4 wreckage that was been investigated by Syrian and Soviet experts.

That the F-4 crew ejected and Aharon Katz died and Gil Vogel survived in fact they claim that Gil Vogel was captured and was returned to Israel until June 1984 along with the remains of Katz

sourcehttp://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/lebanon-losses.htm

Yes, as I have said all along. Kfadrat won’t have it that it wasn’t a Peace Jack that was lost. Kfadrat believes that the loss of a Peace Jack is being covered up.

That reminds me that You yourself also believe that U.K. Harriers were lost during Allied Force in 1999. Lost in combat and still being covered up to this day. Isn’t that correct?

TEEJ

There is a real fact Gil Vogel was shot down in June 1982 and he was flying a F-4, was it a RF-4E(S) or an F-4E well it is a matter of debate but undoutedly he was shot down and Israel lost an F-4 in June 1982

Flogger,
Go back and read the thread.

‘Remember your claims of Israeli RF-4E(S) loss during 82? Did you ever read the AFM article covering the retirement of those airframes? Any explanation? Hmmm.’

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho…237#post552237

Kfadrat wrote

‘TJ, an F-4E (S) was indeed shot down by an SA-8 unit not long after the 1982 war, the Israelis destroyed the wreck while it was being inspected by Soviet experts – duh – and killed 11 of them.’

Yes Flogger we know that the Israeli’s lost a Phantom. That is not in dispute. The claim made by Kfadrat was that it was an RF-4E(S) ‘Peace Jack’. The Israeli’s retired those airframes in 2004. AFM covered the retirement.

Read the caption under the last image in regards to Peace Jack airframe 492.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_363.shtml

first, I NEVER promissed anything, I said they’ll be provided WHEN the time comes, I AM going to stick to my words.

second, I stopped buying AFM a year or so ago, the thing just turned into a US/British propaganda tool and is NOT worth the money any more.

third, we Arabs have an old saying : ” Do you have access to his thoughts and acts? ” … that’s a rough translation, it means in my own words : ” STOP ATTACKING SOMEONE WHEN YOU ARE NOT UPDATED ABOUT HIM ! “
the guy you keep attacking is way ahead of you right now in research and is brave enough to correct his own statements when he finds new clues, unlike SOMEONE I know.

finally, you don’t make mistakes ONLY when you are doing NOTHING.

Do you not find it strange that his source on the fantastic post 9/11 ‘MiG-29/F-15 shootdown claim’ has dried up? Even Tom Clancy couldn’t have written a better story?

So, can you explain how AFM are being duped on their F-4E(S) ‘Peace Jack’ retirement? You seem very convinced of the story of the Peace Jack shootdown. It makes almost as good a story as the 2001 Syrian MiG-29 shootdown.

Explain how the Israeli’s can retire Peace Jacks and the Syrians not even acknowledge or rise to the bait of ‘How did we shoot one down then’? It makes the tale of the shotdown ‘Peace Jack’ very dubious.

I suspect those are actually DH-112 Venoms rather than Vampires.

And thanks for the great pics. 🙂 We need pics a lot more than we need bickering about who is really what 😀

Those images are Vampires.

Iraqi Venom at following link

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=134084

Some images of the Huey from the 1980s

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=AE-413&distinct_entry=true

The issue I think that both you and Impi seem to be avoiding, is not what the USAF did (or tried to do ) to the Iraqis once they were in the NFZ, but whether they (the USAF) were actively trying to draw the Iraqi aircraft into the NFZ, by using the Predators (or other assets) to perhaps cross over the NFZ border into Iraqi airspace , thereby provoking a response. The NFZ were there (supposedly) to protect the minorities from Iraqi a/c – not to finish the destruction fo the Iraqi airforce. So, if the Coalition was trying to provoke the Iraqi’s into entering, then they were acting illegally.

The reality was that Stupid George was just looking for an excuse in Dec 2002, and I wouldn’t put it past the American govt to indulge in aggressive air ops to either provoke a reaction or even (as I think plawolf suggested) to gather intel ahead of the invasion. If we take Major Lilly’s words at face value (because there is no evidence that he didn’t mean exactly what he said – then “baiting” would suggest trying to draw the Iraqi’s into an area where they could “legitimately” be engaged. And that is what is causing the heated discussion.

Also, can you please refrain from ruining what is a fairly civilised debate by resorting to personal attacks on those who disagree with you?

The fact that the Predator was carrying Stingers is irrelevant. The Predator would conduct its primary mission of monitoring within the NFZ and if engaged had the potential capability to retaliate. Predators also conducted their mission with Hellfires in order to engage ground air defence units if the need arose. Predators would hang about and goad those ground air defence units to show themselves. Is that illegal in your rule book? Remember that those ground air defence units shouldn’t have been operating below the 33rd. Iraq aircraft also attempted to engage any UAV where ever they could, including Hellfire carrying ones. What is so hard for you to understand?

I’ve seen several videos of Iraqi aircraft trying to engage UAVs monitoring the NFZs. Some UAVs armed and some not. Everytime they bugged out when their GCI/Fighter Controllers tipped them off as to the presence of Coalition aircraft. It was a game of cat and mouse. Your claims of ‘illegal’ are laughable. The whole point is that the Iraqi MiG-25 shouldn’t have been in the Southern No Fly Zone in the first place. The MiG pilot was under orders to challenge the NFZ and engage the Predator. If the encounter had gone the other way then it would have been one mission capable MiG-25 airframe less and the Iraqi Air Force punished for violating the NFZ.