wilhelmI think sferrin meant the Al-41 that was to power the Mig1.44 eventually.
Certainly it’s published specs were very impressive. I think the question asked is whether the original Al-41 is a completely dead project, or is it now pushed further back to the medium term? Below from Wiki (Yes, I know…:rolleyes:)
The NPO Saturn AL-41F is a Russian turbofan engine, designed for supercruise flight. Originally developed for the Mikoyan Project 1.44, the engine was built around the geometry of the AL-31F, making it compatible with existing airframes, including the Sukhoi Su-27 series. The engine is reported to have recently entered low rate initial production for use in the Su-34 Fullback. Specifications are not disclosed yet, but it is described by most sources as being in the 40,000 lbf class, 10:1 thrust to weight ratio.
A heavily-upgraded version of the Al-31F is being developed for the Su-35BM prototype and possibly to power the early flights of PAK-FA. This engine has been named the AL-41F1A. It is important to note that the AL-41F1A is not considered a part of the same AL-41 line as was planned for the Mikoyan Project 1.44 because it uses the core of the AL-31F, whereas the AL-41F utilizes an entirely new core. The designation appears to be present because the engine approaches the projected specifications of the new AL-41F class. The engine is specified as being able to provide 14.5 tons of thrust. It is also notable that the engine is capable of mounting 3D Thrust Vectoring Nozzles for extra maneuverability.
wilhelmWilhelm, excellent posts, whilst we have a Rooikat chassis in a thread I must just ask if anybody has any information or pictures about the proposed and apprently prototyped ICV version?
Thanks in advance sealordlawrence.
Sealord, I have a very small picture of that Rooikat based 8×8 ICV, along with some other pictures with partial views of the vehicle in the backround.
I think the vehicle might be at the School of Armour museum in Bloemfontein, but I speak under possible correction here.
I also have some pictures of the various other 6×6 and 8×8 vehicles/mock-ups used in the original Hoefyster project to replace the Ratel.
If you are interested I can dig them out and post them.
wilhelmPaul, behind the Alpha XH1 combat helicopter testbed(10th photo from top), there appear to be a set of disassembled wings from the Cheetah. I suspect those are the Advanced Combat Wing as tested on the Cheetah back in the early/mid 1990’s.
Did you perhaps take a closer picture of those? Nice photo’s by the way…
wilhelmIt is not really a case of Brazil buying the AMRAAM. They want to buy into Denels missile programmes to partner them and get useful tech transfer and ownership of that tech. Therefore Brazil has bought into the A-Darter programme, and is actively looking at the T-Darter as well as various other programmes. It goes hand in hand with the non-aligned powerblock Brazil, South Africa and India are attempting to forge. It is about relative independence in various military technologies.
The Derby has a South African equivalent called the R-Darter, which has now been retired with the Cheetah C.
Without de-railing, I was wondering if these programmes might have a say in Brazils’ choice, seeing as the SAAF already operates one of the contenders.
Nicholas, I would hope that an offer of free integration of whatever BVRAAM should be part of the French bid. It might increase flexibility of future Rafale bids to other non aligned members.
I for one would like to see Rafale succeed on the international stage.
wilhelmInteresting post, MadRat.
I always wondered how effective it would be to design a “modular” aircraft that can swap out components on the fly, depending on what the customer wants and/or what the mission dictates.
Upgrading would be a snap; just pull out the radar and fit the newer one that you bought last week. Or add an extra engine to optimize it’s air superiority performance. Or replace the single-seat cockpit and put in a twin-seater cockpit module designed for EW work.
Something akin to the HiMat perhaps, but with common interface allowing “plug ‘n play” electronics/avionics?
wilhelmWould the increasing co-operation in AAM between Brazil and South Africa perhaps be a pointer toward a probable Gripen purchase due to missile integration?
Not that the IR SRAAM (A-Darter) needs particular hard work on integration, but the possible/probable BVRAAM would (T-Darter).
wilhelmThe radar looks a lot like Kameelperd. Is it in fact the same/similar?
Does the SA Army have MANPADS in service?
I am aware that they “aquired” a number of SAM-7 launchers and missiles from the Cubans and Angolans, but those would surely be at the end of (or past) their shelf life by now.
As plane man said, the Starstreak is the SANDF’s SHORAD.
I’m not too sure whether the radar on the ZA-35 shares it’s lineage with the Kameelperd. Certainly the Kameelperd array looks to be a little larger than the radar array on the ZA-35, which was designed by ESD of Stellenbosch. The Kameelperd is manufactured by RRS (Reutech Radar Systems). I’m unsure whether there is a link between the 2 companies, or whether one is just a design firm.
Certainly the Kameelperd (Giraffe) is a battery control early warning system. Below from the Financial Mail a few years back.
The second and third phases of the wider ground-based air defence system will include a short-range missile system with a 20 km range and a 10 000 m altitude, probably using the Umkhonto missile developed by Denel’s Kentron division, and integration of existing anti-aircraft guns with Reutech Radar Systems’ Kameelperd radar/artillery command post.
Below is some basic info on some of RRS products.
wilhelmThe ZA-35. The SAHV/Umkhonto was to be mounted on a similar vehicle. I do not have any images of the latest version of the land based Umkhonto.
wilhelmThe Umkhonto was derived from the SAHV missile initiated in the 1980’s. It was tested on the Crotale/Cactus missile vehicle chassis, of which there is a photo on the net of a launch from this vehicle. There was also a version that was to be mounted on a Rooikat 8×8 Armoured Car chassis so as to accompany mechanised units in deep strike missions. This was to complement the 35mm SPAAD ZA-35 that was also Rooikat based. I will post an article on this I have scanned from about 17 years back.
The South African SAHV-3 (Surface-to-Air High Velocity-3) missile programme was initiated in the mid-1980s, during the final phase of the Angolan campaign, when the South African National Defence Force (SANDEF) found that it could not provide sufficient air cover for its ground troops. The missile, believed to have been called Spectre, was designed as a plug-in replacement for the French Cactus/Crotale missiles, and SAHV is compatible with the Crotale fire unit including the command link receiver. A common RF/laser command link is used in both the Crotale and SAHV-3 systems, and the laser option has been incorporated in the baseline SAHV-3 model to ensure compatibility with the passive electro-optical tracking system specified by the South African Army. The first projected platform for the SAHV was Crotale 1000, a modernised version of the Cactus missile system in service with the SANDEF, but the latest version is Crotale 4000. The SAHV missile was designed to take alternative guidance systems, using assemblies already in development. The first option uses command guidance from the Crotale system, and is known as SAHV-3. A second option uses an IR homing seeker developed for the Darter air-to-air missile, and this variant was initially designated SAHV-IR, but is now known as Umkhonto (Spear). A third option, which employed an active radar seeker, was designated SAHV-RS. Models of these three versions were first displayed at exhibitions in 1991, but only the SAHV-3 version was built for production. The SAHV is expected to provide a complete air defence system against
wilhelmThe VLS “limitation” of the Umkhonto is only a problem insofar as existing Brazilian ships are concerned. It is not an exclusively naval missile. Land basing on trucks etc. are an option. What is the current status of SAMs in the Brazilian Army?
Denel are working on a truck-based land version of the Umkhonto SAM. I’m uncertain of the Brazilian Army’s SAM holdings at the moment.
Denel improves AWSAM missile Written by Leon Engelbrecht Monday, 12 May 2008 The state arms company upgrades its Umkhonto air defence missile. Denel, the state-owned arms company, has conceptualised a family of missiles based on its Umkhonto short-range air defence (SHORAD) system.This development will likely earn SA billions more in foreign exchange in the applied IT field.
The Umkhonto is in service with the South African and Finnish navies and is on order for the Swedish Navy and the SA Army.
The SA Army is to acquire the system as part of Project Protector, an as yet uncosted programme to give the Air Defence Artillery (ADA) a capability it has never previously enjoyed.
The ADA is taking a very SHORAD (VSHORAD) system into service as part of the R801 million Project Guardian, also known as phase one of the Ground-based Air Defence System (GBADS).
Protector, or GBADS 2, will see the Army get an extra punch. “It is the same missile that is used by the SA Navy, it will just be land-based,” says Denel Dynamics air defence missiles executive manager Machiel Oberholzer.
“We have signed an order for the study phase on the launcher. We have already quoted similar systems to other areas in the world,” Oberholzer adds.
“It is a good concept, six missiles in an ISO-container that can be mounted on any type of vehicle, that has a 360-degree engagement capability and a high kill probability due to is large [23kg] warhead.”
Umkhonto`s IT systems are countermeasure-resistant and do not need line-of-sight to the target to fire, but use lock-on-after-launch. It is modular and, therefore, easy to integrate into the military`s command and communications architecture or C4IRS (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, reconnaissance and sensors).
Infrared boost
The current infrared-guided Umkhonto has a range of 12km. Oberholzer says this is being expanded as part of a pre-planned product improvement initiative. An extended-range infrared version is planned and will range up to 22km.
The company also plans to fit a radar seeker to Umkhonto to give the system the ability to shoot down aircraft and missiles in all weather conditions under the name AWSAM or all weather surface to air missile.
Oberholzer says the standard AWSAM will have a 20m range, while an extended range version fitted with a booster rocket (AWSAM-E) – will hit out up to 30km – which places it in the medium-range capability.
“This is the first time AWSAM is talked about,” Oberholzer says.
He adds that the advantage of such a family of missiles is that “you can have a cocktail of missiles in your launchers so you can engage with the most appropriate one to the threat. Infrared missiles are cheaper than radar and you don`t want to use an expensive missile to shoot down an easy target.”
wilhelmCan we please not ban star49………….
How much rubbish do we have to read before someone gets rid of him? He is probably one of the main factors as to why this forum has gone down hill over the last few months.
LmRaptor, don’t you think it’s a little uppity to ask to ban somebody who has been here longer than you, and who has almost 9 posts for every one of yours?:confused::dev2:
I also do not like the vast majority of his posts, but this is a discussion thread. We should not stifle polite debate, no matter how inane or one-eyed. He has generally tended to not get personal, unlike many of his detractors.
Some of his viewpoints, as Mig-23’s does as well, drive me to the point of dispair often, but then that is the point of a forum, is it not?:confused:
wilhelmI think Ken hit the nail on the head.
Exactly how do you replace the rotor version of the DC-3/C-47?
wilhelmFrom memory, I think 2 Mirage F-1s were shot down by Cuban flown Migs. The second F-1 was shot down by a Mig-21.
Cannot find the source. Anybody has any details/corrections?
Incorrect.
Major Arthur Piercy’s F-1 was the only casualty from air to air combat suffered by the SAAF. No Mig-21 scored any combat kills in the Southern African theatre. He flew his damaged Mirage all the way home, and landed it. Unfortunately, due to hydraulic damage, his damaged brakes could not prevent his aircraft from overshooting the runway. It hit a rock with it’s undercarriage which activated his ejection seat, leading to his confinement to a wheelchair from there-on…
This is my recollection of the events leading up to the accident.
It was approximately 1500B (local) on 27th September 1987 when all hell broke loose. There had been numerous call-outs previously which proved to be nothing at all, so when the “hot-line” started ringing there was very little reaction from us. However this time the call wasn’t to go on cockpit standby like before, but rather a call to scramble immediately.
The letter I was writing went flying as I scrambled to get into the cockpit. In a matter of minutes we were screaming down the runway. I was lucky I was number two in the formation as it was about 45 deg C outside and the take-off was hair-raising. How numbers three, four, five and six got airborne I don’t know.
After take-off we remained low level and set heading for the combat zone. It was our intention to remain low level for as long as possible to avoid being detected by the Angolan radars.
The order came to pitch about 10 minutes after take-off and up we soared like homesick angels.
His story continues here….
http://www.piercy.co.za/accident2_details.htm
The shoot-down resulted from the all-aspect IR AAM.
wilhelmGreat pictures, and very nicely explained.
wilhelmPersonally, I doubt the PAK-FA will be superior to the F-35 even if it is cheaper. Second, who would purchase it regardless except possibly China, India or Venezuela??? Really, a non-starter……..
So by your criteria the F-22 is a flop….?
Even if only around 300 to 400 airframes are purchased domestically and internationally, that would indicate a successful programme post Cold War.
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