wilhelmDamn; that is one ugly plane! Not ugly in a good way like the A-10 or the Su-25 but ugly in the worst way. It looks pregnant with the extra fuel tank bulging from its belly. Really disappointed in this bird. Looks like something that belongs back in the 1960s and not today!
I agree on the looks, but the PLAAF does have a large number of these in service. So it looks like a pretty effective and cost efficient way to upgrade what is after all a ground attack platform. It does now have the ability to launch guided bombs, and one could argue that it’s flight performance, range apart, is actually still quite good.
Perhaps a cheap modern ranging radar could round it off quite nicely.
wilhelmNo mate – the answer isn’t some conspiracy like a few people would want it to be – the Su-30 MKI BARS interferes with civilian VOR and TACAN transponder signal frequencies. Thats pretty dangerous for navigation purposes.
So you don’t believe it has anything at all to do with security from an Indian perspective? Not even a little bit?:confused:;):)
wilhelmAs I said and due to political reasons, it will be some time before anyone will be ready to sell Georgia fighter jets. But if we’re are talking about assumptions, the 11 surplus Atlas Cheetahs from South Africa may also be a good choice and no need to go through F-5s small nose upgrade which won’t fit a big radar in any case.
I completely agree.
There are 12 Cheetah C’s on the market, with additional 2 seaters available. These come with the R-Darter BVRAAM and glass cockpit. Perhaps the V3C with helmet cue-ing system can also be thrown in. Availability is now as they have not even been in storage yet. I can’t see a better deal currently….
wilhelmOn the BVRAAM that Denel are working on, it is stated that they are looking for a partner to help finance this missile. The last post on this thread below says a little more….
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66397&page=2
Interestingly, the Brazilians are now expressing interest in the Bataleur MALE UAV. A little while ago, Brazil, India and South Africa signed an agreement, as possibly the principal non aligned nations globally, to further various economic developments accross the board, including defence. It appears there is growing co-operation between Brazil and South Africa … but I’m unsure where India sits…
Certainly each country has definite strengths that the others may benefit from.
wilhelmEDIT: This forum blocks the word “w(a)nker”? Whats so bad about that word? Is it a British thing? :confused:
It is of British origin. It is not a very nice word at all. Google should tell you why. I have no idea of the usage it has in the US, but it is generally considered a quite graphic insult in other English speaking countries….
wilhelmSome further comment..
SA, Brazil seek to build long-term relationship on back of missile programme
By: Keith Campbell
Published: 8 Aug 08 – 0:00
The joint programme between South Africa and Brazil to develop the A-Darter fifth-generation infrared homing air-to-air missile (AAM) is, for Brazil, a launch pad for a lasting relationship with South Africa. It is also important as a chance to regain expertise that Brazil once possessed, but has since lost.“We see this as a good opportunity to start a long-term relationship with a country that is very similar to us in terms of technology, culture – almost everything; we have a lot in common,” affirms Brazilian Air Force A-Darter programme project officer Colonel Nelson Silveira. “I see this as a landmark in the relationship between the two countries.” He freely admits that the Brazilians were surprised at how advanced South African technology is.
“We had a very strong defence industry prior to the first Gulf War (1991),” he explains, regarding Brazilian expertise. “We had very strong companies, developing a wide range of products.” However, the sector was very heavily dependent on international markets, which, as far as Brazilian companies were concerned, collapsed following 1991. (Iraq had been a particularly important market.) With few significant domestic orders, the sector contracted sharply, with some companies disappearing and others barely managing to survive. Expertise was lost. Development programmes were halted, or proceeded at a very slow pace.
“We experienced some years without most of the industry making any significant progress,” he adds – and this in a sector in which progress is mandatory to remain competitive. “Brazil did, however, focus on the development of civilian space rockets to support its space programme. So this programme is, for us, a matter of recovering the technology that we had, but lost.” Thus, although the Brazilians are actively participating in the development of the missile, “for us it is more of a technology transfer programme”, he says.
The Brazilian team working alongside South African engineers and technicians at Denel Dynamics is composed of 35 people: 15 Brazilian Air Force per- sonnel, and 20 people from three Brazilian private-sector defence companies. These are Mectron, Brazil’s only missile-producing company, responsible for the country’s indigenous MAA-1 Piranha infrared homing AAM, which currently equips Brazilian fighters and which the A-Darter is intended to replace. The Mectron component of the team numbers 14. Another four personnel are from Avibras, a company with considerable expertise in rocket motors. Finally, there are two from a company called Optoeletronica. In addition, there is a ‘mirror team’ in Brazil.
“The Brazilian technicians have moved from learning, to participating in development,” reports Silveira. “The Brazilian Air Force personnel arrived first, and are fully integrated with the South African team. The Mectron people came next, and were fast-tracked for integration. The Avibras and Optoeletronica staff will be integrated as soon as possible.”
The A-Darter project is also significant for Brazil in that it is the first defence technology development programme to receive funding from outside the country’s Ministry of Defence – it is also being funded by the Brazilian Ministry of Science and Technology. Development of the A-Darter will allow the Brazilian Air Force to leapfrog an entire AAM generation, going straight from the third generation to the fifth generation.
So successful has the joint programme been so far that Brazil is now negotiating with South Africa to also jointly develop the Denel Dynamics Bateleur unmanned air vehicle project (see Engineering News July 11, 2008).
The A-Darter is not Brazil’s first technology transfer programme. The Brazilian Air Force’s Aero-space Technology General Com-mand (CTA) was originally established as the Aeronautical Technical Centre (also CTA), in 1954, with technology transfer from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Brazil’s highly successful and now private-sector aviation company Embraer started as a division of the CTA.
wilhelmSo in a nutshell, a competitor is claiming that the opposition has a dud missile and that the programme as a result is dead…..:rolleyes:
I’ll remain sceptical until a more neutral knowledgable source of information is brought into play.
It certainly is a much needed weapon system, from a defensive point of view.
wilhelmRight… I’m also a little confused by particular posters seeking to call into question Von Richthofens credentials as the best ace of the War.
A cursory examination of his combat career will reveal the following:
He was the top scoring fighter pilot of the war. There is evidence that his actual first 2 kills were not awarded due to the fact that both victims crashed behind Allied lines. One of these claims was when he was an observer handling the defensive MG. And this brings me to the next point. The Baron was a supurb marksman. This is universally acknowledged, yet has not been so far acknowledged here in this thread. Rather, it appears important to some that his aerobatic prowess was not the absolute best, and that this is something of a deficiency! His suburb tactics and marksmanship are quietly played down. He regarded his mount as primarily a platform for his weapons, not an acrobatic mount. This is farsighted, as can be seen by subsequent developments in air warfare. He was not interested in aeobatics, but rather in the “Dicta Boelcke”.
It is interesting that the majority of his victories were gained against a numerically superior enemy flying tecnically superior machines.
Oh, and lastly….. his title of “Freiherr”, translated as “Free Lord” is the German equivalent of a Baron.
wilhelmBack on topic..
Is the J-8 still in production, or are examples such as that recce model conversions of older fighter models? I’d imagine it would be easier to keep the employees manufacturing the J-8 gainfully employed? Does anyone know the airframe life of the J-8?
wilhelmWas wondering at the level of co-operation on the PL-10 with South Africa. The PL-10 and A-Darter certainly look very, very similar.
wilhelmI had some problems with the film ‘Downfall’, particularly the heroic portrayal of Willhelm Mohnke. I hope this production is not going down the same route. Von Richthofen was brave, brilliant and worthy of his place in the sun, but that isn’t the whole story. Any thoughts?
We’ll, that’s just the thing, you see…..Richthofen was a hero in Germany at the time… probably the hero. And if the aftermath and his funeral are anything to go by, his enemies thought exceptionaly highly of him too.
He is the most famous combat pilot in history, so I’m not sure what you’re asking…..
wilhelmIf I can get it sorted out right, my intention is to be able to grill steak and crab for the same meal. I’ve got this weird idea of getting a syringe and injecting the crab with drawn butter and lemon before grilling as well to see what it does 😀
Yes. Yes I see what you mean with that butter/lemon/syringe thingy…..:)
The problem with the Weber, or any of those kettle barbecues, is that they are too small for a proper braai….. the type where you have a few good friends over. I like to time it all so that everything comes off at the same time. The Kettle Braai is just too small for that…
Has anybody got any unusual barbecue recipe’s like “wot SOC sed”?
wilhelmIf I can get it sorted out right, my intention is to be able to grill steak and crab for the same meal. I’ve got this weird idea of getting a syringe and injecting the crab with drawn butter and lemon before grilling as well to see what it does 😀
Yes. Yes I see what you mean with that butter/lemon/syringe thingy…..:)
The problem with the Weber, or any of those kettle barbecues, is that they are too small for a proper braai….. the type where you have a few good friends over. I like to time it all so that everything comes off at the same time. The Kettle Braai is just too small for that…
Has anybody got any unusual barbecue recipe’s like “wot SOC sed”?
wilhelmWe call it a Braai in my neck of the woods. I would not dream of braaing with gas…. what is the point? Why bother leaving the kitchen?
The best barbecue (braai) is made from wood, with charcoal being the second choice in my opinion. Certain woods make for better coals and taste than others. But there is a skill to it with regards to when to put the meat on. With a wood braai you may also sear/seal a good steak whilst there is still flame.
The wood method also allows a little fire-side banter between friends whilst enjoying your favourite poison …… but NEVER EVER criticize the hosts fire making or barbecueing skills.
In summer we braai at least once a week, often twice. I have braaied 5 or 6 times this winter already. Most people will have a purpose made built-in braai outside which normally features a covered seating and/or braai area. Like most people I have a Weber, but only really use it for chicken.
We braai steak, chops, ribs, chicken, sausage etc, but never hamburgers. Non meat food items will be potatoes or butternut wrapped in foil and chucked straight on the coals, garlic bread, corn etc…
Google “braai” for a better description of this laid back activity…
wilhelmWe call it a Braai in my neck of the woods. I would not dream of braaing with gas…. what is the point? Why bother leaving the kitchen?
The best barbecue (braai) is made from wood, with charcoal being the second choice in my opinion. Certain woods make for better coals and taste than others. But there is a skill to it with regards to when to put the meat on. With a wood braai you may also sear/seal a good steak whilst there is still flame.
The wood method also allows a little fire-side banter between friends whilst enjoying your favourite poison …… but NEVER EVER criticize the hosts fire making or barbecueing skills.
In summer we braai at least once a week, often twice. I have braaied 5 or 6 times this winter already. Most people will have a purpose made built-in braai outside which normally features a covered seating and/or braai area. Like most people I have a Weber, but only really use it for chicken.
We braai steak, chops, ribs, chicken, sausage etc, but never hamburgers. Non meat food items will be potatoes or butternut wrapped in foil and chucked straight on the coals, garlic bread, corn etc…
Google “braai” for a better description of this laid back activity…
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