It will be interesting to see the non-US approach when it emerges.
Approach to the engine or to the whole 6th gen concept?
In the first case I would say that Izdelje 30 is geared to be a variable cycle engine about the next generation, something has been edited by Russia part.
Laser has not such a part in their own projects but instead they consider Plasma stealth , Photonic radars, not conventional form of propulsions and speed increases as something quite close to reach.
You have to consider also that they produce/develop/test several fighter planes in the same moment so they would probably have a lot of “5,5 gen” items in which said innovation can be introduced as soon as they mature before editing out a full 6 gen.
Let’s say that we have there a NATO member acting against the actual USA vetted proxy, using the former vetted one.
For Russia is a win-win-win situation: they were all in the same side against her until few weeks ago.
Let’s imagine that the Iran revolution would have taken place two-three years later, it would have been possible that IIAF would in the meantime have received not just the F-14 but also the F-16 …
Now the same with F-35 , i’m sure than in every case Russia would not put Turkey in an hurry to leave Nato.
Ok, I didn’t know. If the A-C hybrid catches the first cable, it would have perhaps 30-50% more landing distance than if it caught the 3rd wire.
It is clear that landing with an A-C hybrid would stress the airframe more, but the airframe might be good for a few hundreds landings, which I would guess would be sufficient to just to reinforce the Navy temporarily. Would a completely autonomous landing software be hard to do for USAF planes, I don’t know, but AIs will become more and more widespread in coming years/decades. An AI could probably land the plane.
All this discussion seems me to forget an important point.
We are talking about stealth plane there: even a minimal change in its external shape would imply to recalculate its RCS reduction another time.
Raytheon’s strong suit is their Training Division. The airplane is only one part of the T-X Training System. The ground-based training system is equally important.
And you know how is strong Alenia Aermacchi in the same sector?
Raytheon jumped on the bandwagon after General Dynamics left but the integrated training systems i.e. the ground based training systems, the simulators, the full mission management systems, the academic and the logistics support and all the other possible trimmings already exist .
Raytheon would just adapt them for US requirement, not to reinvent the wheel.
So it an also be that the last to be fully revealed would be the T-100 i.e. the one that would have been the one requiring less changes?:confused:
Now, maybe is only Raytheon joining late to the bandwagon instead of general dynamics but at this point i would expect some surprise.
Most powerful engines and/or structural changes in order to reach max G number?
Another thing you have to take into consideration is how smooth would be the transition between the different type of planes that would be used in the different phases (primary-basic- advanced-lead_in-OCU).
Also because Usaf actually use turboprop T-6 as the intermediate one, passing from it to a plane like let’s say T-50 could be quite a bumpy ride.
Well, why not simply get T-50 Mk2, then?
Question was: until what date would Flanker derivative still be viable?
Answer given was: about half of the next decade.
At this point I forwarded the idea that a Flanker with updated engines and a photonic radar would be something you can get with a low expense and it can be retrofitted also to actual production models so stretching way further the proposed date.
So it was : specific question- direct answer. T-50 is something you added.
In the case of T-50 or better said of the operational aircraft that would came out from this ongoing program, let’s say that half of the deal is on schedule already and so a Mk2 would be logically be purchased also but as also now they found convenient to produce both of them, let’s imagine when there would be available a radar that can wipe out the great part of the advantages stealth technology actually offer.
Su-35, Su-30SM and the future indigenized Super Sukhoi-30 have an export future deep into 2020s, I think.. They will be a standard issue replacement for all the Flankers in Europe and mid Asia for countries under Russia sphere of influence.. Talking about Kazakhstan (Su-30SM), Belarus (Su-30SM), Iran (Su-30SM), Indonesia (Su-35SK), Vietnam (Su-35SK), Myanmar (Su-30SM), maybe even Azerbaijan (Su-30SM), Mongolia (???).. unless some of em opt for MiG-35, instead.
Maybe also after that. Let’s think about like to say a Su-37S with full power izdelje 30 and photonic radar.
Both NG and Boeing designs look very nice from what is known so far.
Except I don’t like the looks of the intakes on the N400, but apart from that, it looks like a modern day F-20 with a trainer nose section, very sleek.
Boeings design reminds me of a Saab 105, at least the front view. Conventional configuration as I thought, no V-tails, but maybe twin tails and engines unlike the NG entry? Overall, seems to be a very sleek design as well.
I’ll eat my (imaginary) hat if the winner isn’t NG or Boeing… These purpose-built aircraft surely fit the requirements much better than the mini-F-16 aka T-50 with it’s 70s aerodynamics and over engineered light fighter airframe. The M-346/T-100 is the outsider in this competition, I just can’t imagine USAF flying +/- the same jet the Russians and Chinese (L-15) are using.
I also fear that.
Still it is exactly the same plane that Israeli, Singaporean and probably all other Nato members that can afford themselves a lead-in trainer would use…
Hence my fear that US specifics would lead-in them in the wrong direction.
V-tail, swept(back?) wing, anhedral, flaten noze (provision for a radar?), large inlets, body lift, larger fuselage.
Also, regarding the supersonic possiblities, it is obvious to me that Northrop (and perhaps Boeing with a twin engine design) are heading for unaugmented supersonic performances (yes, call it supercruise). The light weight and high dry trust (plus minimal wing in the case of the Northrop design) all speak to this.
We had a hint when the USAF specificaly specified the height (and loss of height) of threshold performances (med alt). Lower alt, smaller wing, less drag and hence more performances for a given engine.
Yes, THIS would make sense instead (see my previous post) or to put it in another way it would be something worth the eventual added price.
If the T-X is not supersonic I wonder how it will be possible to train the F-22 pilots with it. Maybe they’ll have to keep some F-16s for that.
Maybe in the same way all other air forces that have not supersonic trainers i.e. practically everyone around have done in the last fifty years?
It’s called OCU i.e. you flight on a two seater version of the operational plane you would use in your own career.
Now in the case of 5th fighters there just to solve that little additional problem of the lack of the two seaters but its (also) because of that the concept of a lead-in trainer was developed.
Why not give the Northrop T-38 design a complete review, to modern standard, like was done with the C-130
And built 400 or so brand new T-38 trainers.
With luck this 2nd generation (year 2020) Talons can give the Air Force another 60 year of service
Because the flight pattern of a modern 4+, 4,5 to 5 gen fighter is radically different to previous ones.
T-38 was probably conceived in a moment (late fifties) in which the transition into the century series supersonic fighters was deemed somewhat problematic, hence the need of a pristine form of lead-in trainer able to break the sound barrier.
Now this is not such an issue anymore so keeping on using them would surely still be a lead-in but in the wrong direction.
Same consideration could be a problem for the F-16 derived T-100: its flight pattern is the same of F-16 or can it venture also in high AoA maneuvering? Without it the goal of replicate performances of latest generation fighters will be missed the same.
Here hence the reason of my looong discussion with (the excellent poster) bring-it-on: the specifics actually settled on for the T-X competition seems me to lead-in in replicating F-15 and F-16 pattern much more than the ones of *insert the name of any fighter entering service from eighties onward, Mig-31 excluded, there.*, hence also the (still hanging on my part) suspect of a certain “tayloring” made on them to make sure they would gave an advantage to certain competitors presenting clean sheet design.
Great site GarryA! Just expand a little further the one about areodinamics, please.
Just to explain things about High AoA, supermaneovreaubility, post stall maneuvering and so on.
If you don’t know, for many years here Rosnano is a synonym for loud declarations, fancy powerpoints and, mainly, blowing the money.
Once more, you are making too far fetching conclusions from the wishful thinking of some and publications that have little connection to the actual subject.
Well, I would put the possibility to distinguish between what is written in poducer’s leaflet and the reality as the n°1 problem in all discussions there.
Think about what is what has been written written about F-35 superior SA …compared with what?
In the case you say it would has been stationed over Hasakah, not over Aleppo or worse Idlib.
Look for some Syria map, internet is our friend…