In the big scheme of things it is not that important, after all. We all come here to read and sometimes to learn and to exchange information, knowledge and opinion..

If we are frustrated by the difficulty of comprehension of some posts then we are free not to read them and to move on. If we are frequently frustrated we can always find another forum.

This one’s the best I know but it’s entirely my choice.

Perfect and succinct summation agree entirely.

Touche!:highly_amused:

Sorry not sure I understand you. Did you mean touché? :dev2:

so I usually don’t bother to read them.

Ah that explains a lot regarding my posts.:D

My use of ‘hypocritical’ and ‘nonsense’ is within the context of the strength of venom aimed at ‘freeloaders’. I can sympathise with those who may think it is ‘not on’ but those who seem to think they are the lowest of the low are being hypocritical because I doubt they have led virtuous lives where they have never had a freeloader moments. Hope you get my meaning and that I’ve expressed that well.

You’re right about the free lunch but there is no evidence to suggest that 50 odd photographers in a field is hitting the uk warbirds industry when it is likely they probably contribute to the cause in other ways (not including the safety argument here). Conversely I don’t begrudge someone who can’t afford the show enjoying it from an embankment with a packed lunch when the event is near bursting anyhow.

It’s not illegal.

Do not remember “venom” or “lowest of the low” being used but I am not going back to find out. Personally I do not believe in calling a spade a shovel. There is nothing wrong with the term “freeloader” or similar as long as it is truthful and accurate. I am sure most of us have enjoyed perks of the job. I understood your meaning before it was the hyperboles I was commenting on.

If “there is no evidence to suggest……..” Then there is no evidence to suggest that the freeloaders couldn’t afford a ticket especially if they have the equipment necessary to take pictures from there as you mention. The events were sold out, but I had tickets if you want to go order early. Everybody has the same problems about weather and being ill on the day etc. etc it’s a chance we all have to take.
I have bought tickets for Sunday at Coventry and we were meant to have already left but we have both been ill and now it is getting touch and go but if we do not make it I am happy that the money is going to a good cause.

My motto is book early, arrive early and leave late. It tends to be the people who arrive late and leave while the flying is still on that complain about the traffic and for some reason always expect to be able to barge their way in, often using their little brats, to get a rope line view at the important moments. Yes, of course they have young children and got to get to work the next day but most of us have been there and you just need to sort it for yourself.

Well I think we have fully exchanged our views, I haven’t changed mine and you haven’t changed yours so maybe we have been wasting our time, but you have to try.

Did you not go out for 30 years? Surely the adjustment isn’t that bad. I mean, I know some shops/banks are infuriating but I go out and meet plenty of lovely kind people each day.

Is life/the world really that bad.

Cheer up 🙂

No we didn’t my wife ran our post office and shop on her own and I ran another post office 5 and a half days a week. On top of that is cash and carry, accounts, VAT returns etc etc etc. If you wanted anything more than beautiful countryside then it was 2 hours just to get out of Wales and had to be open next morning.

Charlie understands and as he says maybe its an age thing.

It was a total shock to us both how much things had changed in relation to service and manners in public, and a few other things!

Yes, of course, there are plenty of nice people but there are also plenty of people without any manners. My main comment was about service and I have had a lot of dealings with banks in the last few years and really you may not realise it but the service is very poor. When dealing (no solicitor) with three probates at the same time I was repeatedly told by various banks I couldn’t do what ever it was I was doing. Guess what every single time they were wrong. One even expected me to walk away from £10K because they couldn’t find any record “and we can not help you in this matter”. They were very wrong.

I think as one gets older and you see all the things you thought of interest and value being destroyed and the same old mistakes being made over and over again it is depressing.

Don’t need cheering up I have been exchanging views with you so why are my views depressing and yours are not, they are to me which is why I replied to them.:D:D:D:D:D

If you choose to be somewhere that is a public right of way and watch aircraft overhead then that is a persons right. Such sanctimonious comments on here. A question for all those who decry it. Can you swear you have never been given a copied cd/DVD or kept your mouth shut when something is missing off the bill?

The debate about safety is different (good concerns raised) but the thing about freeloading is nonsense and a lot of hypocritical comments.

Cripes I have had to get the dictionary out now, to make sure I understand some meanings correctly rather than just from life!

Yes of course you are right although is there not a difference between somebody who is passing and those who have deliberately gone there for that purpose as discussed elsewhere. I admit 30 years ago I went to the dunes at Valley instead of paying to get in although, actually, it may have been free anyway, cannot remember now. The point is there is no such thing as a free lunch. If we want to continue seeing these aeroplanes flying and visit museums then you absolutely must pay. We are in real danger of losing them. We always now make a contribution at “free” museums and do not use the get one free entrance vouchers distributed by some magazines. This is just plain common sense as we want to continue to enjoy these and for our children to enjoy them as well.

It is nothing to do with “nonsense” or being “hypocritical” it’s just common sense.

Next along will be the “expensive” argument. But air show are just not expensive for what they are when compared with other forms of entertainment such as drinking and eating out, smoking or visiting pleasure parks, country houses theatre and cinema . It may be that some people cannot afford it but that does not mean it is expensive. Local hotels put their prices up so that for two nights they usually get, from the increased part of the fee alone, more than the air show receives from my tickets.

Some hotels are too expensive for us so we cannot go to them and go to those we can afford.

I think I have been able to make my points without being condescending to any other poster or forumite although I was tempted to call the apostrophe police who are rife on here but the meaning was clear so not necessary.

Sorry that was a totally unnecessary poke, for which I apologise.:D:D

The first sentence of my last paragraph was a generalisation. That sentence seemed to rile you and please be assured it wasn’t directly aimed at you.

I did say if you want to record sound or film then great. I never said people were wasting their time. I simply think you need to stomach it if a child crying spoils your sound or someone gets in the way of your lens. I remember once witnessing a group of photographers berate someone who innocently wandered into shot. An innocent mistake but he was actually shouted at!

If you want the Vulcan sound perhaps go to a location where you have better conditions. I looked at that kit you mentioned. Impressive! But you can have the best kit rendered useless if not sited in the best position. I repeat, I’m glad you get enjoyment from your hobby be it good or bad.

Did the lady know you were recording? The one you thought was inconsiderate. I mean she is not inconsiderate if she perhaps does t realise the way your equipment works or even if she knew what it was.

Apologies for any words you felt were inflammatory.

It doesn’t matter if your first sentence was aimed personally at me or not my comments still apply.

I accepted you could not expect anything in the general public areas but I do expect it in the enclosures. I have never seen anybody berated but then within the enclosures the vast majority are there for the same thing and are, in general, very considerate of each other, that has been my experience.

I don’t have a Nagra I was just pointing out the assumptions made. Position was in a dedicated aeroplane enthusiast’s enclosure, at some expense, where people understand what people are there for. The vast majority were taking pictures and video.

Obviously I have no idea if she knew I was recording although the dead cat is a bit of a give-away. Aeroplanes were active and in the air and you would have to admit that the Vulcan taking off is a display in itself. She had just finished taking a video on her tablet.

It was inappropriate behaviour irrespective to what I was doing in this enclosure at this time it was also annoying other people.

That said we met some very nice people within the enclosure and our seats were double booked but the young guys, obviously keen photographers, would not let us move and even mopped up the rain water.

You are entitled to you views and to put them here, just felt some of the adjectives used were not necessary.

Paul

But the airshow isn’t your own private recording studio. It’s a public event! Just enjoy the display rather than telling other people to be quiet whilst you record your own private movies.

Some people are just obsessed with (badly) recording every moment. If you want to film and record sound then great but expecting ideal conditions at a public event is ridiculous and arrogant.

Not at all. To make your argument you have to unnecessarily include deliberately inflammatory words “obsessed” “badly” “every moment” “ideal conditions” none of which you can possible know about me and I only refereed to the one incident in an enclosure. When you have paid the extra to be in the FRIAT enclose you expect and get due consideration for what you are there for. Only wanted to get the Vulcan sound and she wasn’t talking to her partner but shouting to somebody two rows back. Expect more consideration in FRIAT and that is not arrogant. What is arrogant is thinking your views are in some way of more value than others.

The problem is that nobody knows how to behave properly or give good service any more and the more you let it go the worse it gets. You will no doubt think that is arrogant but it is also true.
When we get bad service we do not let it go we complain and when we get good service we make a special point of saying so and why.

I would agree with you if at the general public viewing line but not in enclosures like FRIAT or FOD.

Whether the recordings are “bad” (do you know what a Nagra is?) or not is irrelevant and is of no concern of yours you do not have to listen to them. If you apply that “logic” the vast majority of the public with their compact digital cameras photographing flying aeroplanes which will only appear as dots are, according to you, wasting their time. Maybe you and I may think so but they appear to be happy with them so who are we to criticize.

As I explained to Moggy it’s about having a record of actually being there, after all as I SAID, there are far better photographs and videos with excellent sound shared on the internet.

People who have paid extra to get into enclosures are trying to get away from the general public and should therefore behave in a suitable manner.

Just my view, many may disagree, and do, but its strange how certain posters need to always add that little bit extra and become personal, something I always try to avoid.